# ''Moral dilemnas' in fiction that weren't a dilemna to you (Open Spoilers re My Sister's Keeper) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 10, 2012, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079 "2012-01-10T20:56:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/121 "2012-01-17T06:16:31Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Why do the human have to bulldoze the tree? They could burrow under it. Probably for the same reason that they didn’t just go to a deposit farther away; convenience. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/122 "2012-01-17T06:19:55Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > They did a Justice League story where the Spectre took our heroes to meet a warm and friendly guy who seems a bit surprised to see 'em but amiably invites everyone inside his home to relax; it turns out they’re seeing the Joker’s wouldn’t-hurt-a-fly soul: an innocent passenger along for the ride, unable to stop the actions his illness compels à la Tourette’s, or something; the Spectre therefore refuses to punish him. > > I didn’t say it was a _ **good** _ story. Wasn’t the point of the story that everyone has some good in them somewhere, and therefore everyone should forgive Hal Jordan for almost destroying the universe? I may be misremembering. It wasn’t a story I was compelled to read more than once. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/123 "2012-01-17T06:52:02Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > To apply that reasoning to another similar analogy: the Nazis (hi Godwin!), an aggressive hegemonising power (just like the Borg) were using force to impose their will on Europe, including the industrialised murder and ethnic cleansing of millions in concentration camps, which we agree was wrong. However using force to stop them would make us as bad as them, so we shouldn’t have and let them continue conquering Europe. God, yes. Godwin or not, this feels like it sums up about 60% of the “ethical quandaries” I see in fiction. And most of the rest are rationalizations of “if we did _that_, we’d end the plot too fast!” > [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Here’s a solution - kill Joker then kill Batman straight after. Problem solved. You are now officially my new favorite schemer. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/124 "2012-01-17T07:10:02Z")
One that always niggled me in an otherwise good movie, Scent of a Woman. Moral dilemma of protagonist: to grass on his classmates or not. But they’re not really his friends, and they’re hanging him out to dry. And they’re spoiled little shits who intentionally damaged someone’s property. There’s no moral dilemma there for me - I’d let the hammer fall with the quickness. (Although Pacino is a great orator and manages to sway the audience towards his opinion, IIRC) ---
**Author:** ![RandMcnally](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b782af/32.png) [@RandMcnally](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RandMcnally)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/125 "2012-01-17T07:33:28Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Well, the point I was trying to make is- and this has been amply upheld here- is that no matter which side you agree with, there’s still a moral dilemma. And the Navi could have tried to help the Humans out a little, allowed them to mine somewhere, or heck, maybe even mining a little for them. Maybe someone slipped them a history book and they found out that that has never worked out well for the colonized. Ever. ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/126 "2012-01-17T07:35:42Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > One that always niggled me in an otherwise good movie, Scent of a Woman. > > Moral dilemma of protagonist: to grass on his classmates or not. > > But they’re not really his friends, and they’re hanging him out to dry. And they’re spoiled little shits who intentionally damaged someone’s property. There’s no moral dilemma there for me - I’d let the hammer fall with the quickness. (Although Pacino is a great orator and manages to sway the audience towards his opinion, IIRC) Charles is trying to live up to what he thinks Baird is and he isn’t going to be deterred in that notion just because the clowns he hangs with are chuckleheads. He believes a poor kid has much farther to go to prove himself to his rich peers (and he’s right). Integrity keeps him from telling, not gullibility, and it becomes courage when it’s clear he’ll burn for his decision. Though I’ll grant you he comes off like a schmuck when talking about them to Slade in the limo. ---
**Author:** ![Illuminatiprimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/illuminatiprimus/32/11520_2.png) [@Illuminatiprimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Illuminatiprimus)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/127 "2012-01-17T09:43:52Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > One that always niggled me in an otherwise good movie, Scent of a Woman. > > Moral dilemma of protagonist: to grass on his classmates or not. > > But they’re not really his friends, and they’re hanging him out to dry. And they’re spoiled little shits who intentionally damaged someone’s property. There’s no moral dilemma there for me - I’d let the hammer fall with the quickness. (Although Pacino is a great orator and manages to sway the audience towards his opinion, IIRC) Better yet, for me the lack of any dilemma is that I don’t understand why the concept of “snitching” exists. People should be responsible for their actions, do the crime, do the time. If someone is called to give evidence in a court a valid response to questions is not “I’m sorry but I’m not a snitch”. These guys had done something wrong and the main character had a _civic duty_ to tell the truth so they would be accountable for their actions. Punishing people for telling the truth, or pressuring them to cover up for the misdeeds of others, leads you into all sorts of horrible situations. I absolutely don’t understand why we punish children for being tell tales when in such a situation it’s actually that whoever they’re telling on has done something wrong. Ludicrous to me. ---
**Author:** ![Isamu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/7c8e57/32.png) [@Isamu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isamu)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/128 "2012-01-17T10:46:17Z")
**Illuminati** you were that guy on the UK gay dating TV show, right? You were cool on that show 😛 Anyway, I see your point and agree somewhat. I think there are two concepts in opposition here: 1. The idea that wrongdoers should face the consequences of their actions. 2. The idea that it’s important to be loyal to ‘your own’. In the abstract, I can agree with both of these positions. The difficulty is, when these two positions come into conflict, where do you draw the line and which side of the line do you fall on? I can agree with, for example, the seargent who helps in covering up one of his platoon member’s contraband infraction because, while the infraction was wrong, _it didn’t hurt anyone else_, and, on the balance, in that kind of situation it might be more important to demonstrate solidarity to the group than to punish for a minor infractions of the rules. But when the wrongdoing results in harm to another is where I too have a problem with, as you allude to, the cultural stigmatism of ‘snitchers’. Morally, you can’t turn a blind eye to murder just because it’s your friend who committed the act, unless you think that, morally, murder is OK in some situations (internet lawyers, please take out your dictionaries and read the words before becoming indignant). Getting back to the movie - The Scent of a Woman - **Mantis** helpfully pointed out Charles’ thought process in that he was trying to live up to a code of integrity. But that the code of integrity didn’t really exist at the school was kind of the point. So I think the Charles character was misguided and I couldn’t find a moral dilemma in the movie. Each to their own. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 10:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/129 "2012-01-17T10:56:06Z")
> [@Illuminatiprimus](#): > > Better yet, for me the lack of any dilemma is that I don’t understand why the concept of “snitching” exists. The moral dilemma here is that snitches get stitches. IOW, “Is having the perpetrators punished important enough to me to accept the risk of future grievous bodily harm in a best case scenario” ? OK, so maybe it’s not that \*moral \*a dilemma :). ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/130 "2012-01-17T18:26:35Z")
> [@Anaamika](#): > > It made me want to spit on the book, I tell you - I hate feeling robbed of a proper ending, and I was firmly in Anna’s camp. After you spend the whole book rooting for her and then she dies anyway…it seemed like a cheat… I just want to point out that I can’t help but to hear this in Annie Wilkes’ voice. (Annie Wilkes from Stephen King’s ‘Misery’) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [January 17, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/131 "2012-01-17T18:38:23Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Getting back to the movie - The Scent of a Woman - **Mantis** helpfully pointed out Charles’ thought process in that he was trying to live up to a code of integrity. But that the code of integrity didn’t really exist at the school was kind of the point. So I think the Charles character was misguided and I couldn’t find a moral dilemma in the movie. Each to their own. The actions of the headmaster also muddied the waters. Charles snitches - he gets into Harvard. If it’s really the right thing to do, there’s no need for a bribe. ---
**Author:** ![dba\_Fred](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/c37758/32.png) [@dba\_Fred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dba_Fred)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/132 "2012-01-18T07:01:19Z")
After getting locked in the jail cell for the umpteenth time, Sheriff Taylor turns around and says “Screw it, I don’t care if you are my cousin, Barney you’re fired!” “Gomer, here’s Barney’s bullet, put that gun back in your mouth.” “And Aunt Bee, quit making those pickles, nobody likes them.” ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [January 18, 2012, 7:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079/133 "2012-01-18T07:34:58Z")
> [@Isamu](#): > > Getting back to the movie - The Scent of a Woman - **Mantis** helpfully pointed out Charles’ thought process in that he was trying to live up to a code of integrity. But that the code of integrity didn’t really exist at the school was kind of the point. So I think the Charles character was misguided and I couldn’t find a moral dilemma in the movie. Each to their own. His moral dilemma IS the movie. The students in his class are misguided. The principal is misguided. This is an institution that prides itself on morality and doesn’t show a shred of it. Charles is the only guy in this movie that is moral, and at the end finally Slade sees it. A soldier doesn’t get to chose the war he fights he can only chose how honorably he conducts himself. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-dilemnas-in-fiction-that-werent-a-dilemna-to-you-open-spoilers-re-my-sisters-keeper/609079.md?page=6)