# Moral Relativism in the United State Foreign Policy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745 "2006-01-20T00:02:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/1 "2006-01-20T00:02:44Z")
I am really tired of hearing about the atrocity committed on 9/11. If that was murder then so is every Iraqi death. I am tired of people acting as though American’s fundamental rights are so much more valuable than those of other people. I’m just goddamned sick of it. If Osama bin Laden deserves some hellish death, then so does George W Bush. If the terrorists are murderers, then so is every soldier in Iraq. I am so tired of the fucking hypocrisy. We’ve been destabilizing them for years to our own economic benefit, and finally they hurt us back, and we’re oh so scandalized. Fuck all of you who supported the war ever and think that you’re any better than Osama bin Laden. I hope one day you know the error of your ways. If not I hope that you share a bunk with him in Hell. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/2 "2006-01-20T00:06:16Z")
:rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/3 "2006-01-20T00:16:49Z")
Sheesh, first [the JC thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354860) and now this? Don’t you have anything better to do with your time? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/4 "2006-01-20T00:20:00Z")
> [@EddyTeddyFreddy](#): > > Sheesh, first [the JC thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354860) and now this? Don’t you have anything better to do with your time? Apparently not today. ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/5 "2006-01-20T00:23:52Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Apparently not today. Might I suggest tiddly winks? You would enjoy it and we would not be subjected to this drivel… ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/6 "2006-01-20T00:24:28Z")
Wait, back up. You don’t get your own room in hell? Is it dormitory style housing or something like that? ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/7 "2006-01-20T00:25:14Z")
Um, that’s a very confusing title. You’re not really pitting moral relativism. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/8 "2006-01-20T00:25:49Z")
They say hell is other people. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/9 "2006-01-20T00:31:54Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > Might I suggest tiddly winks? You would enjoy it and we would not be subjected to this drivel… You wouldn’t be subjected to it if you didn’t click the link either. But of course feeling superior on an internet message board has such allure. Don’t worry I feel you, it’s titillating. Ok, so then what’s moral relativism? I thought it was applying one standard to yourself and another to others. In this case considering it worse for Osama bin Laden to kill civilians than say a member of the air force. Like it’s murder when a brown person does it, it’s defending freedom when a white person does it. ---
**Author:** ![Atticus\_Finch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ec9cab/32.png) [@Atticus\_Finch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atticus_Finch)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/10 "2006-01-20T00:36:43Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am really tired of hearing about the atrocity committed on 9/11. If that was murder then so is every Iraqi death. I am tired of people acting as though American’s fundamental rights are so much more valuable than those of other people. I’m just goddamned sick of it. If Osama bin Laden deserves some hellish death, then so does George W Bush. If the terrorists are murderers, then so is every soldier in Iraq. > > I am so tired of the fucking hypocrisy. We’ve been destabilizing them for years to our own economic benefit, and finally they hurt us back, and we’re oh so scandalized. “They” hurt us back? I can’t see any other “they” or any other hurtful event that you could be referring to, so I assume you’re talking about the Iraqis causing 9/11. If so, you’re talking out of your arse. If not, you can’t write a post to save your life. What kind of idiot are you? ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/11 "2006-01-20T00:39:15Z")
OK numb nut5s put up or shut5 up. Who the fuck has said that killing brown babies is ok, that the civilian deaths in Iraq and afghanistan are more acceptable than the deaths on 9/11. I know there are such assholes out their but I am not one of them nor are most people around the Dope. But you just started ranting without any intro no explaination. Its like starting a pit thread about how you hate that water is wet. Dumbass. You don’t make me feel superior, just kind of tired… ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/12 "2006-01-20T00:41:23Z")
> [@Atticus Finch](#): > > “They” hurt us back? I can’t see any other “they” or any other hurtful event that you could be referring to, so I assume you’re talking about the Iraqis causing 9/11. If so, you’re talking out of your arse. If not, you can’t write a post to save your life. What kind of idiot are you? No I am talking about the systematic destabilization of the middle east that we performed in order to fight the Soviets. I am talking about selling weapons to everyone over there, all sides, both overtly and covertly. I am talking about the assassinations, the training of terrorists, and the expectation that America should control the world’s oil supply. I’m the kind of idiot that knows that America isn’t an innocent victim. I’m the kind of idiot that knows about Iran Contra, and knows that George W Bush thought Saddam had WMDs because he had the receipt from the sale that his Daddy brokered. I am the kind of idiot that knows that the Bush family and their oil buddies in Texas and Saudi Arabia have been engineering Middle East foreign policy both with American governmental authority, and outside of it for the entire time I’ve been alive. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/13 "2006-01-20T00:43:07Z")
> [@askeptic](#): > > OK numb nut5s put up or shut5 up. Who the fuck has said that killing brown babies is ok, that the civilian deaths in Iraq and afghanistan are more acceptable than the deaths on 9/11. I know there are such assholes out their but I am not one of them nor are most people around the Dope. But you just started ranting without any intro no explaination. Its like starting a pit thread about how you hate that water is wet. Dumbass. You don’t make me feel superior, just kind of tired… This thread: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354865&page=2](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=354865&page=2) Where everyone is talking about him being a murdering son of a bitch. I am tired of hearing terrorists villified and soldiers glorified. I am tired of hearing how Americans are innocent victims though we all cry bloody murder when oil prices go up. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e36b37/32.png) [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airman_Doors_USAF)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/14 "2006-01-20T00:45:07Z")
And apparently you know that every member of the military is a murderer no better than Bin Laden. It would be a waste of time to tell you what I really think of that, so I’ll just give you another one of these: :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![askeptic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/eb9ed0/32.png) [@askeptic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/askeptic)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/15 "2006-01-20T00:54:48Z")
Just out of curiosity Erek, is it killing generally that has you so fired up? I mean would you consider an american soldier who killed a Nazi to stop him from gassing a truckload of Jews to be a murderer? Not that thats analogous to anything going on now because it isn’t I just want to know where you are coming from. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/16 "2006-01-20T00:57:21Z")
**mswas** , why do you hate America? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/17 "2006-01-20T00:57:31Z")
You know, from the perspective of an outsider looking in at the U.S., **mswas** does make some valid points. I don’t think there are many people in the world who think the U.S. is nothing but an innocent victim. Was it right for so many civilians to die on Sept. 11? Of course not. Was it right for the U.S. to defy the United Nations and declare war on Iraq in retaliation? Probably not - that one will be debated for a long time yet. (Of course hell will have dormitory-style rooms - it’s hell, ain’t it? 😃 ) ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/18 "2006-01-20T00:58:45Z")
There’s really just no good way to label either side. Morality is an individual issue. Surely _terrorism_ is heinous, but sometimes some Americans are terrorists. I think I know how you feel. ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/19 "2006-01-20T01:15:17Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am really tired of hearing about the atrocity committed on 9/11. If that was murder then so is every Iraqi death. I am tired of people acting as though American’s fundamental rights are so much more valuable than those of other people. I’m just goddamned sick of it. If Osama bin Laden deserves some hellish death, then so does George W Bush. If the terrorists are murderers, then so is every soldier in Iraq. > > I am so tired of the fucking hypocrisy. We’ve been destabilizing them for years to our own economic benefit, and finally they hurt us back, and we’re oh so scandalized. > > Fuck all of you who supported the war ever and think that you’re any better than Osama bin Laden. I hope one day you know the error of your ways. If not I hope that you share a bunk with him in Hell. > > Erek Look, I’m as critical of U.S. foreign policy as the next liberal, and I’ve never supported the Iraq war for even a second, but . . . you can’t see the moral distinction between that and 9-11? Seriously? You can’t tell the difference between a soldier shooting at someone who’s trying to kill them, and someone who crashes a plane into a building where a bunch of innocent people were just trying to go to work? Yes, innocent people have died in Iraq because of the actions of American forces. But we’re not deliberately trying to kill large numbers of innocent civilians because we don’t like their country’s foreign policy. There’s a pretty obvious moral distinction here. Furthermore, if you actually have any desire to convince people that the Iraq war is a bad thing, comparing U.S. soldiers to Osama bin Laden is not what I’d call a winning strategy. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 20, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/20 "2006-01-20T01:34:19Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > No I am talking about the systematic destabilization of the middle east that we performed in order to fight the Soviets. I am talking about selling weapons to everyone over there, all sides, both overtly and covertly. I am talking about the assassinations, the training of terrorists, and the expectation that America should control the world’s oil supply. Those things were wrong. What the terrorists did on 9/11 was wrong. But that _doesn’t_ make those things equivalent. Stealing your neighbor’s newspaper is wrong, too, but that doesn’t make it equivalent to any of the above, or mean that someone who steals newspapers deserves to have the above-mentioned things happen to them (although if somebody steals my newspaper, I do hope they get vicious paper cuts and ink stains all over their hands and faces). [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745.md?page=2)