# Moral Relativism in the United State Foreign Policy **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 20, 2006, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745 "2006-01-20T00:02:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/61 "2006-01-21T04:56:37Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > I would like to alter my last line to: I also wish I had a hamster. What? And make the boards even slower? ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/62 "2006-01-21T13:04:19Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yeah well the thing that pisses me off about lefties is that they can never finish a thought. At least we have thoughts, so we’re still ahead of your curve. > [@Scylla](#): > > We’re not discussing issues here, are we? What issues are we actually discussing. “We” are not discussing issues, that usually takes two people to partake. I was simply observing that you yourself have taken the same tack as the Republican party when dealing with issues. Things like the war in Iraq, the lies about WMDs, the mad spending, the corporate cronyism, the raping of the minorities, the anal rape of the third world give you pause… at least until you find some idiot lefty to mock to make you feel better. This administration and its lackeys don’t have to be or do good, they just have to be willing to find someone worse to talk about. > [@Scylla](#): > > Better. I’ll bet I’ve pissed them off a lot more than you. I must have given you too much credit in the mental abilities department. I thought it would be obvious that I was referring to calling your own political side on bullshit, not the other side. Sorry, I was operating under the mistaken impression you had the reading comprehension skills of a third grader. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/63 "2006-01-21T13:59:06Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Y’know, I’ll be honest. Sometimes I sit there and think about the war in Iraq, the lies about WMDs, the mad spending, the corporate cronyism, the raping of the minorities, the anal rape of the third world… > > And, I wonder to myself. “Is this really what it’s all about? Are we really doing the right thing?” > > And I have my doubts. > And then, I come to this thread and read the OP in all it’s bizarrely confused biliousness… > > …And I know it’s all good. Your worries cannot be terribly sincere if it takes nothing but an internet nutjob to reassure you that things are actually peachy. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/64 "2006-01-21T14:09:02Z")
> [@Hamlet](#): > > “We” are not discussing issues, that usually takes two people to partake. I was simply observing that you yourself have taken the same tack as the Republican party when dealing with issues. Things like the war in Iraq, the lies about WMDs, the mad spending, the corporate cronyism, the raping of the minorities, the anal rape of the third world give you pause… at least until you find some idiot lefty to mock to make you feel better. This administration and its lackeys don’t have to be or do good, they just have to be willing to find someone worse to talk about. And you took that literally? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/65 "2006-01-21T14:10:17Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > Your worries cannot be terribly sincere if it takes nothing but an internet nutjob to reassure you that things are actually peachy. Are you really this stupid? ---
**Author:** ![Waverly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/57b2e6/32.png) [@Waverly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waverly)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/66 "2006-01-21T14:21:17Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Are you really this stupid? Stop tweaking the liberals and go outside and play. ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/67 "2006-01-21T14:25:57Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Are you really this stupid? Nice rebuttal. Truly I have been stopped in my tracks by your calm logic and witty repartee. ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/68 "2006-01-21T14:29:30Z")
> [@Hamadryad](#): > > Nice rebuttal. Truly I have been stopped in my tracks by your calm logic and witty repartee. I’d say you’re a nonstarter responding literally to facetious statements. ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/69 "2006-01-21T14:36:58Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > And you took that literally? Your post was a nigh but perfect example of a problem I see with current Republican thinking, so I used it to spout off. Little did I realize it was a clever parody of that kind of thinking, and that you actually agree with me. Well Done!!! ---
**Author:** ![Hamadryad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/6de8d8/32.png) [@Hamadryad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamadryad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/70 "2006-01-21T14:44:00Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > I’d say you’re a nonstarter responding literally to facetious statements. I’m not sure where you get “nonstarter,” as I don’t recall trying to start anything. As for the second half of your sentence… congratulations! You win! Though really, I guess you’re a “self-starter delivering a facetious reply to a Pit thread.” If you actually thought I was serious, I pity you. If you think you’re somehow mentally superior for YOUR facetious statement, while I’m only “that stupid” for mine, I’d say you have a very solid grasp of relativism. Congratulations! ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/71 "2006-01-21T14:53:15Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > I am really tired of hearing about the atrocity committed on 9/11. If that was murder then so is every Iraqi death. I am tired of people acting as though American’s fundamental rights are so much more valuable than those of other people. I’m just goddamned sick of it. If Osama bin Laden deserves some hellish death, then so does George W Bush. If the terrorists are murderers, then so is every soldier in Iraq. > > I am so tired of the fucking hypocrisy. We’ve been destabilizing them for years to our own economic benefit, and finally they hurt us back, and we’re oh so scandalized. > > Fuck all of you who supported the war ever and think that you’re any better than Osama bin Laden. I hope one day you know the error of your ways. If not I hope that you share a bunk with him in Hell. Previously, I had just pictured mswas as one of those rose-glassed, inconsequential, pseudo-liberal gadflys whose purpose in life was to self-promote his own bizarrely conceived agenda of obfuscation. His pointless meanderings seldom provide any kind of enlightenment; rather, when called to explain a point, he attempts to redefine and backfill–rarely truthfully answering direct questions. Further, he goes on to imply that it’s the reader’s fault for not being intelligent enough to understand his superior reasoning. Well, that’s crap. I’ll state here that I believe him to be a liar. It’s beyond comprehension to believe that his OP was truthful. He doesn’t believe what he wrote. He’s trying to inflame. And what’s that called again? It’s been said that there is some value in everyone, if, for nothing else, to provide a good example. mswas is a good example of dishonesty and cowardice. mswas, when you’re ready to indulge in meaningful communication and debate, there are many here on the board that stand ready to accommodate you. Until then, you will continue to be known for what you are: a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/72 "2006-01-21T14:55:18Z")
Damn. I really wish I had closed the quote. Everything he said came before my line of _“Well, that’s crap.”_ Would a Mod fix that? I apologize. ---
**Author:** ![Rysdad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/7cd45c/32.png) [@Rysdad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysdad)\ **Post date:** [January 21, 2006, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/73 "2006-01-21T14:57:27Z")
No, no, dammit it didn’t. His quote ended in “share a bunk with him in hell.” Fuck it. I’m going back to planning my Vegas vacation. ---
**Author:** ![Lama\_Pacos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Lama\_Pacos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lama_Pacos)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/74 "2006-01-22T18:56:53Z")
Well said, for the most part, **mswas**. ---
**Author:** ![KidCharlemagne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@KidCharlemagne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KidCharlemagne)\ **Post date:** [January 22, 2006, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/75 "2006-01-22T23:59:40Z")
How do you feel about the fact that the majority of **Iraqis** thought the invasion was worth it? ---
**Author:** ![Aeschines](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aeschines/32/16251_2.png) [@Aeschines](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aeschines)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 5:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/76 "2006-01-23T05:39:44Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Yeah well the thing that pisses me off about lefties is that they can never finish a thought. You’re a fucking idiot. Is there anything _unfinished_ about that thought? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/77 "2006-01-23T20:16:56Z")
> [@Scylla](#): > > Better. I’ll bet I’ve pissed them off a lot more than you. Nope sorry, Hamlet is far more irritating than you. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/78 "2006-01-23T20:58:25Z")
> [@KidCharlemagne](#): > > How do you feel about the fact that the majority of **Iraqis** thought the invasion was worth it? How do you KNOW the majority of **Iraqis** thought the invastion was worth it? Which western news source supplied you with this information? And if it is true, which Iraqi news source believed it was worth it? And for those of you doubting my sincerity. No, I really do believe what I wrote. I don’t believe that Al Qaeda is any worse than the regime running our country. I do believe you are being duped by a radical agenda intended to change the regimes in both Iraq and America. I do believe that the Bush family and their buddies are out to topple the American Republic. I do believe they don’t give a fuck about America being a society of law. I do believe that the poor get shit on around here, and that we are moving toward tyranny really quickly, with the help of the soldiers fighting over their helping out Halliburton’s profit margin. I do believe we’ve systematically destabilized the Middle East ever since World War II with our own colonial aims in mind. I do believe what I’ve posted in the past. The people who I have gotten into arguments with and told they were idiots were giving it right back, I got sucked into a flame war, but because I am the minority opinion it’s easier to pin the idea of me being “you know what that’s called” because I am not with the majority opinion on a lot of issues. When I say that “people don’t get it” it’s usually because they are arguing with a tangental point that isn’t the point I am making, like the people who won’t allow me to correct myself and keep arguing with the point I made after I clarify my position. The people who can’t understand the difference between making up definitions, and arguing with the way words are being commonly used on these boards. I do not think that there is anything morally superior in the United States position, a lot of people seem to think that having the Imperial superiority makes us the rule of law across the whole world. We label people as criminals who arent even working within our legal jurisdiction as though our laws are paramount over the entire world. Remember that “No Taxation without representation” line? Maybe you forgot, but still we are taxing other nation’s oil without giving them congressional representation. We dump chemical weapons on poor farmers in Colombia so that they can’t grow cocaine, when Cocaine really isn’t that big of a problem for us in this country. It was an epidemic when it was first introduced and doctor’s were prescribing it for everything and no one knew the long term effects, but now people generally know what Cocaine is and what it does, when it was an epidemic was 100 years ago, times have changed but our policy hasn’t changed to reflect that. So somehow gassing Colombia is a reasonable way to keep ‘the children’ in America safe. What about the children of the farmers that cannot grow crops because of their poisoned soil? We call the Afghani opium producers ‘criminals’. How are they criminals? There is no governmental jurisdiction. They actually control that land, so they should be the ones making the laws, so who are we to judge it as wrong? Give me a fucking break. The problem is that there isn’t enough bile and vitriol. I didn’t say anything unreasonable, I merely said something that didn’t suit the majority jingoistic bias that somehow Osama bin Laden is more evil than any of these other corporate parasites that are willing to fuck over poor people the world over for their agenda. Look at New Orleans. Go ahead, live in your comfortable world where you can point the finger to a shallow interpretation of who the villain is. Have fun disregarding someone who is very angry about it for posting a RANT on a message board dedicated to posting RANTS. Yeah, I’m the one who’s not being reasonable here. You are acting as though using cruise missiles is of greater moral virtue than crashing planes into a building. Osama bin Laden used those tactics because they can’t GET cruise missiles. You’re supporting a regime that wll villify a democratic president for getting a blow job. One that’s supported by people like Pat Robertson who talk about Christian virtue while calling for assassination and building 100,000,000 resorts to profit off of his religion. Yet, my anger my vitriole is what’s unreasonable. NO! It’s your APATHY and COMPLACENCY that is unreasonable. I can try to hold back the anger all I want, but you won’t listen then either. At least now you responded and I saw who actually gives the situation some thought rather than putting their head in the sand. You’re going to reap what you sow, and you’re probably going to blame the poisoned crops the whole time rather than your own negligence and lack of response to the evils being perpetrated by your own government. But of course **KidChameleon** Jesus Christ would never beat his wife, he would never say any of the crazy shit that I’m saying. He would never test people’s opinions to see who has eyes to see or ears to hear. He would never have any problems in his own life, he’d be born perfect, none of that residual sin he took upon himself would attach itself to him as he emerged from it now would it? He’d never talk some crazy shit in order to see whether or not you’ll disagree with something because you don’t like the person saying it rather than actually giving thought to the individual parts. He’d never want to test who’s able to see the signal amidst the noise would he? Of course I’m not Jesus Christ, God doesn’t even exist anyway, and Jesus Christ was someone who MAY OR MAY NOT have lived in 1st century Israel, and of course I never ever pointed out that the Messianic force is a collective thing. Nah, I’m full of shit because of what I’ve got to say. If you think the Apocalypse ain’t coming then you’re a fucking fool, because you’re living in the midst of it. I am simply tired of keeping my mouth shut for fear of sounding crazy. Your country is run by the order of death. Greenhouse emissions are causing global warming so that it’s in the 60s REGULARLY throughout the month of January in New York City. The path of Hurricanes are changing. World War III is about to break out in the Middle East. We’re on the verge of decoding the entire human genome. Species are going extinct at an alarming rate. If the glaciers in Siberia melt they are going to release methane that will accelerate the rate of Global warming. The Ocean’s fisheries are nearly depleted yet we keep going, the threat of Nuclear war is greater than it’s ever been. South Korea is starting to implement robot police officers just as the human being as an unskilled laborer is about to be obsolete. We have no way of knowing if our intelligence agencies are working for the government or private corporations. We have a president who thinks he is totally unaccountable to the electorate, who is driving up our national debt to unprecedented heights who has made a career of crashing dummy corporations, who’s best friends with the royal family of one of the most brutal regimes in the middle east. Go ahead, think I’m an idiot, think that I don’t know what I am talking about. There is very little that I say that’s not right under your noses, that the most cursory of research couldn’t unearth, but you’re comfortable in your little American cubicle of self-delusion. All of us ‘hippy peaceniks’ are full of shit, because of course cointelpro never existed right? They weren’t watching Martin Luther King like a hawk. Hippies weren’t getting harassed by government officials. No, never, it was all imagined by a few paranoids. The drug war couldn’t possibly be a clever way to circumvent civil liberties when necessary could it? No, not at all. It’s all right there in front of your face, look at it, open your eyes, because if a little bit of bile and vitriole in the BBQ Pit is enough to get you to dismiss what I’m saying, then fuck it, there’s not much worth saving in this country then anyway. The troops are NOT spreading freedom, they are NOT helping other countries, they are making it worse, and it IS their personal responsibility to stop fighting. For anyone that does believe in Jesus Christ when they meet the real Jesus Christ whoever that may be, on judgement day, and they have to atone for what they did as though they had done it to him, do you think “I was just following orders.” is going to cut it when they explain why they shot that woman in Fallujah? So many people are over there fighting because they think they are doing it for good Christian values, they are going to get a hell of a surprise on judgement day when they are judged individually for the decisions they made, and no excuse, no passing of the buck is going to get you out of it. IF YOU PULL A TRIGGER, YOU ARE A KILLER, and YOU are RESPONSIBLE for that DEATH. I don’t give a fuck what lies you tell yourself to blame Osama bin Laden for your anger. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/79 "2006-01-23T21:01:32Z")
And just for the record. I’m not liberal or conservative. This isn’t a liberal or conservative issue. This is an issue for those that actually believe the American dream has more to do with the right to speak your mind, to walk freely down the street, to put food on your plate. If you think that you have some divine right to drive your hummer, then I can understand why you might think that this is a partisan issue, but I assure you, it isn’t. Erek ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [January 23, 2006, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745/80 "2006-01-23T21:10:31Z")
> [@Airman Doors](#): > > And apparently you know that every member of the military is a murderer no better than Bin Laden. > > It would be a waste of time to tell you what I really think of that, so I’ll just give you another one of these: :rolleyes: Osama Bin Ladin would no doubt roll his eyes at you too if you called him evil. NOBODY wants to believe that they are the bad guys. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/moral-relativism-in-the-united-state-foreign-policy/340745.md?page=5)