# Morality of tilting Pepsi bottles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 16, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415 "2005-02-16T20:59:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![macabresoul](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e68b1a/32.png) [@macabresoul](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/macabresoul)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 4:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/41 "2005-02-17T04:47:23Z")
> [@](#): > > Oh, and my interpretation of the rules about not trading, selling, etc. the codes means the thread in MPSIMS is in violation of the rules. Strictly speaking, if someone buys a bottle of Pepsi and tosses the cap without looking at it, you can’t take it, since you didn’t acquire it through the “no purchase necessary” process or by buying the bottle yourself. I actually heard a story the other day that relates to this. Some coke promotion was giving away 1 million dollars by putting a winning messege at the bottom of a can. Some janitor found out that all the employees in the building just throw thier cans away, and he started looking in each one as he took the trash out each night. Lo and behold he found a winner, 1 million bucks. So the next day he goes back to work and brags to all his co-workers, “haha I won a million dollars off a can I found in the trash!” Then all his co-workers who drank coke that day were trying to claim the can saying it was actually there can he found! Long story short, there is lawsuit now, trying to prove that the person who bought the can is actually the winner. …I hate people ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/42 "2005-02-17T05:21:49Z")
Several people have raised a good issue; in the baseball card scenario I mentioned it was the seller who had removed the “hidden” value. When he then sold the cards he knew he was defrauded people who were paying for the possibility of getting a foil card. But the Kwik-E-Mart is essentially a neutral agent (assuming Abu didn’t tilt the bottles himself) as they are selling Pepsi’s with no influence over which bottles have a prize and which bottle the customer chooses to buy. A tilting customer in turn is not defrauding subsequent customers, even though he is decreasing their odds of winning. He was just “gaming” the system and any other customer theoretically has the same opportunity. It’s essentially the same as if there was a model of car in which 50% of the cars made had a brake defect. If one customer comes in and insists on test driving cars until he finds one with good brakes to buy, he has reduced the percentage of good cars on the lot. But that doesn’t mean he’s cheating other customers; they also have an opportunity to test drive the cars and find one with good brakes. It’s not the test driver’s fault if someone doesn’t test drive a car before buying it even though the test driver has increased the odds against him. ---
**Author:** ![DeepMauve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a9adbd/32.png) [@DeepMauve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DeepMauve)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/43 "2005-02-17T05:57:30Z")
I think it’s only unethical if another person is be significantly damaged as a result of your actions. In this case, the worse thing you can claim is the loss of a buck (and you still get the Pepsi you were paying for!) If their actual odds of winning have shot down, well, it’ll give them a taste of what the rest of their life in this ‘fair and equal’ world is going to be like anyways. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/44 "2005-02-17T06:17:56Z")
Ethical issues are rarely based on the cash value of the objects involved. If stealing is wrong, it doesn’t matter if you steal a penny or a million dollars. ---
**Author:** ![KJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b2d939/32.png) [@KJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KJ)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 7:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/45 "2005-02-17T07:15:43Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > Ethical issues are rarely based on the cash value of the objects involved. If stealing is wrong, it doesn’t matter if you steal a penny or a million dollars. I disagree. I couldn’t care less if someone took a penny from me, but I’d definitely notice if someone took $1,000,000 (assuming I had that much money to begin with.) Looking under the soda cap is sneaky, but I don’t think it’s entirely unfair. As I see it, it’s fair because _anybody_ can look under the cap without any special tricks (like a metal detector for instance), and so nobody is at a specific disadvantage. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 2:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/46 "2005-02-17T14:31:46Z")
> [@TJdude825](#): > > So if I tilt the bottle, find a code, and then memorize the code and use it, leaving the bottle on the shelf, is that within the rules? (I realize that “No purchase necessary” refers to the ability to receive game pieces by mail, but I still think this is an interesting question.) Then you’ve not only “taken” someone else’s song, you’ve allowed them to spend a dollar thinking that they’ve won. Those codes are LONG! Plus, The tilting trick only allows you to see if there’s something there. Plus plus, the letters and numbers are imprinted so poorly, sometimes I wasn’t sure if I was typing it in correctly once I had it off the bottle. If someone took the time and effort to scrawl down the code correctly, I would be nothing less than astounded by their ability. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/47 "2005-02-17T15:07:02Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **KJ** > I disagree. I couldn’t care less if someone took a penny from me, but I’d definitely notice if someone took $1,000,000 (assuming I had that much money to begin with.) **Little Nemo** wasn’t talking about how much one would care. He’s talking about ethics. Stealing is ethically wrong, whether we’re talking about a penny or $1,000,000. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **KJ** > Looking under the soda cap is sneaky, but I don’t think it’s entirely unfair. As I see it, it’s fair because _anybody_ can look under the cap without any special tricks (like a metal detector for instance), and so nobody is at a specific disadvantage. One of the websites that’s linked to in the OP specifically shows you a trick to tilting the bottle and looking. I doubt everyone realizes that this can be done. Pepsi meant for this to be a game of chance. Just knowing that, makes tilting the bottles so you can buy a winner every time unethical. It doesn’t matter that they didn’t make sure that lifting up bottles and peeking through at a certain angle exposes winners. This is not the same as knowing how to pick fresh melons at the market or how to find a car with good brakes in a car lot. I’m not saying I’m an angel and above doing this sort of thing. I’m trying to look at this objectively and look at the ethics of it. I wouldn’t be surprised if its also illegal. Not that I think anyone would ever be prosecuted over it, just that its technically illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/48 "2005-02-17T15:21:57Z")
It’s a low, petty sort of thing to do. When I was a kid, people who did things like this were referred to as “chiselers.” The promotion was set up as a (poorly designed) game of chance. Tilting the bottles makes it no longer a game of chance. Saying that everybody could be a chiseler doesn’t make it ethical. ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/49 "2005-02-17T16:29:12Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > **Little Nemo** wasn’t talking about how much one would care. He’s talking about ethics. Stealing is ethically wrong, whether we’re talking about a penny or $1,000,000. Who, exactly, is getting robbed? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/50 "2005-02-17T17:05:20Z")
> [@](#): > > Stealing is ethically wrong, whether we’re talking about a penny or $1,000,000. > [@](#): > > Who, exactly, is getting robbed? I feel like I’m being whooshed here, but the obvious answer is the person who the money belongs to. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/51 "2005-02-17T18:46:31Z")
When I go to the grocery, sometimes there are special peel off coupons on the food. If I see that some of the containers have the special coupons, and it’s something I want, I might cherry pick other containers with the special coupons. Is this the same thing? ---
**Author:** ![B.Serum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/b.serum/32/14266_2.png) [@B.Serum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/B.Serum)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/52 "2005-02-17T19:18:11Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > I feel like I’m being whooshed here, but the obvious answer is the person who the money belongs to. Let me rephrase: In the Pepsi-bottle-tilting scenario, who exactly is being robbed? ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/53 "2005-02-17T19:28:51Z")
> [@Floyd13](#): > > You’d think these guys would of learned by now. Pardon my anal grammar nitpick, but it’s WOULD HAVE, not “would of”. I’m sorry, but that’s like nails on a chalkboard to me. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/54 "2005-02-17T19:45:51Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **Hey you!** > Let me rephrase: > > In the Pepsi-bottle-tilting scenario, who exactly is being robbed? By lifting Pepsi bottles, tilting them at a certain angle and peeking at the underneath of the bottle caps and purchasing only winners, you are robbing other customers who either don’t know about the trick or are ethical enough not to do the same thing of a 1 in 3 chance of buying a winner. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/55 "2005-02-17T20:03:58Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > you are robbing other customers who either don’t know about the trick or are ethical enough not to do the same thing Wait. You’re saying that it’s unethical because some people wouldn’t do it because it’s unethical. Is it unethical if I look through the milk cooler for the carton with the latest sell-by date? ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/56 "2005-02-17T20:17:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **jsgoddess** > Wait. You’re saying that it’s unethical because some people wouldn’t do it because it’s unethical. No. I’m saying its unethical because it robs others of the 1 in 3 chance of buying a winner that Pepsi intended each consumer to have. > [@](#): > > Originally posted by **jsgoddess** > Is it unethical if I look through the milk cooler for the carton with the latest sell-by date? No. The dairy farm that packages the milk marks dates clearly visible on the carton for all consumers to see so they can make their own decision. If for some reason you think it may take you a week to to drink the milk, it isn’t unethical for you to purchase milk with a later sell-by date if. Ethics are based on opinion, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/57 "2005-02-17T20:57:41Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > No. The dairy farm that packages the milk marks dates clearly visible on the carton for all consumers to see so they can make their own decision. If for some reason you think it may take you a week to to drink the milk, it isn’t unethical for you to purchase milk with a later sell-by date if. I guess I don’t see the difference. I’m tryiing to see where information that benefits the consumer is unethical if put to use. If I opened one of those clamshell plastic grape tomato cartons to make sure the hidden tomatoes aren’t rotten, is that unethical? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/58 "2005-02-17T22:22:13Z")
> [@jsgoddess](#): > > If I opened one of those clamshell plastic grape tomato cartons to make sure the hidden tomatoes aren’t rotten, is that unethical? Yes. Yes, it does. Just kidding. I check egg cartons, too, just to make sure none are broken. Depriving oneself of information in plain sight isn’t ethical, it’s just… dumb. ---
**Author:** ![x-ray\_vision](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/x-ray_vision/32/351_2.png) [@x-ray\_vision](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/x-ray_vision)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/59 "2005-02-17T22:47:25Z")
> [@](#): > > Originally posted by **jsgoddess** > I guess I don’t see the difference. I’m tryiing to see where information that benefits the consumer is unethical if put to use. Why is this so hard for you to understand? The information on a milk carton was intended for the consumer to use before buying and the information printed under the cap of a Pepsi bottle was intended to be used only after buying. As long as we both agree on that, it should be obvious that lowering other consumers odds of winning a game of chance is unethical. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2005, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415/60 "2005-02-17T23:02:51Z")
> [@x-ray vision](#): > > Why is this so hard for you to understand? The information on a milk carton was intended for the consumer to use before buying and the information printed under the cap of a Pepsi bottle was intended to be used only after buying. How is it different than the egg buying or the tomato buying? If information is available right there, with no destruction of property (which would harm the seller) then how is it different than not buying the dozen eggs with the cracked one? How is it different than putting back the clamshell with the rotten grape tomato in the center? In both the egg case (which is a great example) and the tomato case, I’m interacting with the product to find information that I’m sure the seller and the producer don’t really want me to know. In both the egg case and the tomato case, I’m leaving a higher percentage of cracked eggs and rotten tomatoes for the next person. In both the egg case and the tomato case I am leaving the next person to their own devices when it comes to finding the good eggs and the good tomatoes. If they are afraid to open the egg carton because they feel that getting a dozen uncracked eggs should just be the luck of the draw, that’s their problem. If they don’t realize that they can open the carton, that is also their problem. I’d sympathize if someone said, “Damn, I forgot to check the eggs and when I got home there was a cracked one.” I wouldn’t sympathize if someone said, “I saw someone checking eggs before she bought them and that just pisses me off because it makes it more likely I’ll get a cracked one!” The information in all of these examples, Pepsi, eggs, tomatoes, and milk, are right there, waiting to be discovered. And if Pepsi did the same thing last time, I’d defy someone to prove they didn’t mean for this to happen this time. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morality-of-tilting-pepsi-bottles/290415.md?page=4)