# Morals/ethics and the Dachau Massacre **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660 "2011-09-26T15:52:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/1 "2011-09-26T15:52:04Z")
In brief, in the aftermath of the liberation of the Dachau concentration camp by the US Army, several dozen German POWs (camp guards) were killed by US troops and liberated inmates (who may have been given pistols and bayonets). Overview [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_massacre). These killings seem like they may have been murder; though if any case calls for temporary insanity, this seems like one that does. Should the GIs and inmates have been tried for murder? My answer is no, but it’s hard to put into words why exactly I feel that way. Perhaps it’s because I can’t imagine how I might react were I to see such utter horror. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/2 "2011-09-26T16:02:08Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > In brief, in the aftermath of the liberation of the Dachau concentration camp by the US Army, several dozen German POWs (camp guards) were killed by US troops and liberated inmates (who may have been given pistols and bayonets). Overview [here](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_massacre). > > These killings seem like they may have been murder; though if any case calls for temporary insanity, this seems like one that does. > > Should the GIs and inmates have been tried for murder? My answer is no, but it’s hard to put into words why exactly I feel that way. Perhaps it’s because I can’t imagine how I might react were I to see such utter horror. GIs yes, former prisoners no. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 4:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/3 "2011-09-26T16:20:48Z")
Wikipedia is a horrifically bad resource for a number of reasons. Beyond that even the wikipedia article doesn’t support your allegation that “several dozen” German POWs were killed at Dachau. If the wiki article is to be taken seriously(always a dangerous proposition) then some German POWs were killed, but it’s not clear how many, that it may have only been a few and that it’s not clear how many US soldiers were involved, the circumstances of the killings, or if any prisoners participated in it. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/4 "2011-09-26T18:44:50Z")
Ok, Ibn Warraq. My intention is not to debate whether the Dachau Massacre happened, but how to judge/handle the perpetrators. To clarify- assuming the account in the OP is accurate, should they have been tried for murder? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/5 "2011-09-26T18:52:28Z")
What **sh1bu1** said. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/6 "2011-09-26T18:58:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ok, Ibn Warraq. My intention is not to debate whether the Dachau Massacre happened, but how to judge/handle the perpetrators. Then your post was really poorly worded because you present it as if it’s a demonstrable fact that the massacre happened. It may very well have, but you don’t present any compelling evidence to believe it did. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/7 "2011-09-26T21:10:17Z")
You got me, Ibn Warraq. My post was poorly worded. Hopefully, out of the kindness of your heart, we can move past it. ---
**Author:** ![Farmer\_Jane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Farmer\_Jane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmer_Jane)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/8 "2011-09-26T21:17:25Z")
I have trouble summoning up enough sympathy to even begin to judge if the alleged crime was ‘immoral’ or not. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/9 "2011-09-26T22:04:37Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Ok, Ibn Warraq. My intention is not to debate whether the Dachau Massacre happened, but how to judge/handle the perpetrators. > > To clarify- assuming the account in the OP is accurate, should they have been tried for murder? My sense is to say no. But a more detailed explanation of the surrounding facts might change my mind. As a general principle, prosecutors have the discretion to look at the circumstances and decide what justice warrants. I have no trouble believing that was done here. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/10 "2011-09-26T23:34:55Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Should the GIs and inmates have been tried for murder? The GIs? No. The Inmates? Fuck no. When someone has been engaged in the murder of hundreds of innocent people, as far as I’m concerned there are only two requirements: make sure you’ve got the right man, and kill him cleanly - no torture. Killing them isn’t murder - it’s a failure to follow the recommended procedure. ---
**Author:** ![Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/f04885/32.png) [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qin_Shi_Huangdi)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/11 "2011-09-26T23:38:48Z")
No, just procedural error. I can’t see how anybody could remain calm with dead bodies lying around everywhere and the perpretrators about to taken away to at the least three square meals a day and a nice, clean cell. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/12 "2011-09-27T07:10:22Z")
Yes, they _should_ have been tried for war crimes. You don’t shoot prisoners. Doesn’t matter what they did. You hand them over to due process of law. This doesn’t mean I don’t understand _why_ this might have happened, but that doesn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 8:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/13 "2011-09-27T08:47:27Z")
What has always struck me first about seeing photografs of this incident, is that these ss-men are wearing camouflage combat-uniforms. Which seems a bit odd for guard duty. Must read some more about this. ---
**Author:** ![Grumman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/43a26b/32.png) [@Grumman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grumman)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 8:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/14 "2011-09-27T08:56:13Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > You don’t shoot prisoners. Sure you do, it’s called a firing squad. These men were committing genocide. Calling it a war crime because they were killed right then rather than months down the line is rather silly. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/15 "2011-09-27T08:57:51Z")
On balance, I’m with **Mr Dibble**. The mitigating circumstances might bear on whether they would be convicted and of what crime exacly, and if convicted would certainly bear on how they might be sentenced, but shooting prisoners out of hand is always unacceptable, regardless of provocation. “I don’t see how anybody could remain calm” doesn’t negate the possibility of homicide under other circumstances, and it doesn’t here either. An awful lot of homicides are commited in circumstances were people can’t remain calm. ---
**Author:** ![Dissonance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/85f322/32.png) [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 9:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/16 "2011-09-27T09:22:13Z")
There is, as **Bricker** said, a certain amount of prosecutorial discretion. However, > [@Qin\_Shi\_Huangdi](#): > > I can’t see how anybody could remain calm with dead bodies lying around everywhere and the perpretrators about to taken away to at the least three square meals a day and a nice, clean cell. Given your tendency to make foolish, jingoistic statements I hope that you reflect on exactly what you wrote here, **Qin** /née **CurtisLeMay**. You’ve described the situation of every POW taken on the battlefield and those that took them prisoner. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 9:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/17 "2011-09-27T09:32:10Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Sure you do, it’s called a firing squad. > > These men were committing genocide. Calling it a war crime because they were killed right then rather than months down the line is rather silly. Which is still illegal, now matter how silly you may think it is, it is still a crime. Furthermore, it is not clear, to me at least, that all that were killed were actual camp guards. This account how ss were segregated from Wehrmacht and the camouflage uniforms seems to indicate that normal combat-POW’s were amongst those murdered. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 10:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/18 "2011-09-27T10:38:38Z")
> [@Grumman](#): > > Sure you do, it’s called a firing squad. Not that I approve of capital punishment, but firing squads generally come _after_ that “due process of law” I mentioned. Comparing that to summary executions is what’s known in the trade as “The Fallacy of False Equivalency” > [@](#): > > These men were committing genocide. No. They _had commited_ genocide, they were not commiting it at the time they were shot, there was no clear and present danger from them. > [@](#): > > Calling it a war crime because they were killed right then rather than months down the line is rather silly. No, it’s not “rather silly”, it’s in the very body of legal conventions that define “war crime” - they very specifically and pointedly mention this sort of thing:[ > [@](#): > > “No sentence shall be passed and no penalty shall be executed on a person found guilty of an offence except pursuant to a conviction pronounced by a court offering the essential guarantees of independence and impartiality.” – Second Protocol of the Geneva Conventions (1977) Article 6.2. ]([Summary execution - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summary_execution#Prisoners_of_war)) ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 4:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/19 "2011-09-27T16:09:15Z")
Of course you don’t prosecute them. Not the guards, and certainly not the prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2011, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660/20 "2011-09-27T19:09:43Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > Of course you don’t prosecute them. Not the guards, and certainly not the prisoners. I meant GI’s not guards, of course. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morals-ethics-and-the-dachau-massacre/597660.md?page=2)