# Morbid question: At what speed does it become impossible to hold on to the outside of an airplane? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 17, 2021, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038 "2021-08-17T21:52:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/21 "2021-08-18T11:29:59Z")
Ah ok. But it’s also the case that humans can fit in the wheel wells of some planes around the wheels. And then they die of exposure. The plan was likely grab on → lodge in a wheel well → find some gap or something to get inside the plane. It’s still naive but not quite as naive as thinking they could just hang on. Plus a huge wodge of desperation. ---
**Author:** ![N9IWP](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/n9iwp/32/3154_2.png) [@N9IWP](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N9IWP)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/22 "2021-08-18T12:20:05Z")
Semi-related - Jay Leno opened up the front hatch of a Grumman Albatross\* and pretended to climb towards the windshield. A lot of his body was inside so it looks more dangerous than it is. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/m-Sg1idEeN4/maxresdefault.jpg "Jay Leno says this video of him outside a flying plane is real") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m-Sg1idEeN4) Brian - Presumably there for folks to drop an anchor. An Albatross is one of my if I win the lottery planes . ---
**Author:** ![Keith1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6de8d8/32.png) [@Keith1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keith1)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/23 "2021-08-18T12:20:15Z")
How about a second option!? Rather than simply holding on, what if a person was strapped to the plane by their wrists so letting go was not an option. How fast would the plane have to go before the persons arms were removed from their sockets (hey, they’re about to die anyway). There would be variance, depending on a persons body. Perhaps practical experiments should be in order. Lots of them. After wrists we could move to strapping ankles. Maybe Trump would be kind enough to volunteer some of his antivax & qanon minions. Maybe even the big man himself could step up to the plate. It could be televised! ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/24 "2021-08-18T13:45:05Z")
Didn’t Ahnold do the same as Cruise in _Eraser_ ? (Kevin in _A Fish Called Wanda_?) Of course, for those stunts, we’re talking about a jet doing 200mph or less in take-off/landing mode. At cruise, they reach up to 600mph. The complaint about wheel-well stowaways is that the wheels are designed to fold with minimal wasted space, so a person would be very lucky (and not have much time) to find a position where they were not crushed. The bigger the plane, the stronger the hydraulics, the more likely the weakest point in the folding wheels is the torso in the way. Plus, a number of stowaways are discovered when they drop out of the plane on approach, either unconscious or frozen. Reporters foolish enough to report from the fringes of a hurricane have trouble staying upright in less than 100mph winds. Winds can be pretty powerful. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/25 "2021-08-18T14:01:02Z")
I found a [wiki on wheel-stowaways](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wheel-well_stowaway_flights) and, surprisingly, as many as 24% survived. (although of course there will be many cases that we will never know about because the body fell somewhere remote or in the ocean) ---
**Author:** ![Toxylon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f05b48/32.png) [@Toxylon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Toxylon)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/26 "2021-08-18T14:04:07Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > It’s not remotely true that a moderately fit person can hang from a bar indefinitely. That stood out to me, as well, in its impossibility. This is something that is easy to try. I have pulled thousands of pullups, and trained others, so I have some idea. As the seconds turn into tens, normal people start dropping like flies. A fit male reaches a minute plus. That is not a long time at all, as per a flight abroad. I’m sure a free climber champion could hang ten times longer than a fit male, but not the duration of a flight. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/27 "2021-08-18T14:19:42Z")
The footage of the two Afghans falling (at 00:27) shows that one was apparently clutching the wing of the plane, and the other was on the side of the fuselage. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/yVkbqNcaOTo/maxresdefault.jpg "Video shows people falling from jet after chaos at Afghanistan airport") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVkbqNcaOTo) ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/28 "2021-08-18T14:23:14Z")
> [@SciFiSam](#): > > Slightly outside the bounds of GQ, but that’s probably not true. **A lot of them had probably flown a fair few times,** and all of them would have seen planes before; **it wasn’t ignorance that killed them.** Not their ignorance, anyway. Would the average Afghan have really flown on a plane before? (I don’t know - is that within the average Afghan lifestyle or something they would have done?) And if not ignorance, then - suicide? Because if someone climbs onto a jet they **know** will eventually go 500 mph at 30,000 feet, that could only be suicidal. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/29 "2021-08-18T14:27:52Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Would the average Afghan have really flown on a plane before? The average Afghans aren’t the ones fleeing the country in desperation. These are people who have spent the last 20 years working for the US military or former Afghan government. They have probably flown on more military craft than most of us have ever even seen. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/30 "2021-08-18T17:16:40Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Assuming a normal size adult human male body, and average strength, and a good grip to hold on to, at what airspeed would the wind be blowing with such force that the person simply could not hold on anymore? (ignoring things like temperature or lack of oxygen) Skydiving websites report that the terminal velocity for a human being in head-first freefall is about 180 MPH. Human beings vary widely in size and shape, but for a reasonable first approximation, let’s assume we’re talking about a 160-pound adult. In other words, a human being traveling head-first through the air at 180 MPH experiences about 160 pounds of aerodynamic drag. The point at which a person simply can’t hang on anymore depends on how much force is being applied, and for how long, and what kind of grip strength and endurance they bring to the table in the first place. Experienced rock climbers have grip strength and endurance like nobody’s business; couch potatoes, not so much. **[According to Quora (via Google)](https://www.google.com/search?q=straight+arm+hang+test+average+time&rlz=1C1GCEA_enUS930US931&sxsrf=ALeKk00d4MUOk27_68pr-ZCl6npsQ_Nlsw%3A1629305419233&ei=SzodYbbPDdTS5NoPitWcsAI&oq=straight+arm+hang+test+average+time&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyBAgjECc6BwgAEEcQsANKBAhBGABQ_MwCWJ_aAmDc3AJoAXACeAGAAYIDiAHLCpIBBzEuNC4xLjGYAQCgAQHIAQjAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwj2oPnVg7vyAhVUKVkFHYoqByYQ4dUDCA4&uact=5)**, “Someone of average upper-body relative strength will be able to hang from a pull-up bar for somewhere **between one and several minutes** (with both hands on the bar).” OK, so if the C-17 is cruising at a steady 180 MPH, maybe someone could hang onto the exterior for a minute or two, assuming something appropriate to hang onto. But the plane isn’t cruising at steady speed, it’s accelerating. They probably lift off of the runway at around 150 MPH (this would vary depending on local density altitude and gross weight). Drag is proportional to the square of speed, so by the time the plane has accelerated to ~250 MPH (probably about the time the people actually fell off), a hanger-on is experiencing 320 pounds of drag. In other words, it’s like doing a straight-arm hang from a pull-up bar with your friend on your back. The average person can’t hang on for more than a few seconds with that kind of load. In the short time between takeoff and the moment they fell, the plane would not have climbed high enough for hypoxia or hypothermia to be an issue; these guys fell off because they simply couldn’t hold on anymore. > [@Keith1](#): > > How about a second option!? Rather than simply holding on, what if a person was strapped to the plane by their wrists so letting go was not an option. How fast would the plane have to go before the persons arms were removed from their sockets (hey, they’re about to die anyway). A C-17 cruises at about 520 MPH at about 30,000 feet. Drag is proportional to density and also to the square of speed. After consulting my standard-atmosphere spreadsheet and adjusting for speed and density, I calculate that my assumed 160-pound adult would experience about 511 pounds of drag at cruise conditions. For comparison, the deadlift world record is over 1000 pounds, but the guy who did that was an Icelandic brute whose body was conditioned for the task. a random person with their wrists strapped to the side of a plane would probably suffer major arm and shoulder injuries, but I’d guess their arms wouldn’t detach. However, they’d probably suffer fatal neck trauma from their head flailing in the slipstream. (all of this doesn’t address what kind of drag they might experience at various combinations of intermediate speed and altitude; it might be more.) ---
**Author:** ![Acierocolotl](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acierocolotl/32/6241_2.png) [@Acierocolotl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acierocolotl)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/31 "2021-08-18T17:19:08Z")
That’s astute of you, and I did clearly make an elementary math mistake somewhere. I was in a rush, I skipped steps, I have brought shame on my family for generations to come. But at the moment, I can’t be arsed to fix it. I’m acknowledging my mistake, I’m gonna look at some kittens. ---
**Author:** ![Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a87d85/32.png) [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tired_and_Cranky)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/32 "2021-08-18T17:41:10Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > And if not ignorance, then - suicide? Because if someone climbs onto a jet they **know** will eventually go 500 mph at 30,000 feet, that could only be suicidal. This isn’t really a GQ answer but I suspect they climbed onto the jet to try to abort take-off. If we taught the Afghanis anything over the last 20 years, it’s that avowed resistance of the Afghan people is sufficient to change U.S. military action. The stowaways probably thought that the pilots wouldn’t take off if enough people swarmed the jet and climbed on it. That would at least create the possibility of getting on it, or at least, securing promises to send more jets. And, having failed that, the window for the stowaways to make a purposeful decision to jump off with some measure of safety was abysmally short. Hanging on until they couldn’t hang on any longer was all they had left. ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/33 "2021-08-18T17:55:36Z")
A recent documentary reveals that Red Guardian / Captain Russia was able to make such a flight on the outside of a plane traveling from Ohio to Cuba. > **[Black Widow (2021 film)](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Widow_(2021_film))** > > Pages for logged out editors learn more > > > > > Black Widow is a 2021 American superhero film based on Marvel Comics featuring the character of the same name. Produced by Marvel Studios and distributed by Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures, it is the 24th film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe (MCU). The film was directed by Cate Shortland from a screenplay by Eric Pearson, and stars Scarlett Johansson as Natasha Romanoff / Black Widow alongside Florence Pugh, David Harbour, O-T Fagbenle, O... ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/34 "2021-08-18T19:27:07Z")
> [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](#): > > The average Afghans aren’t the ones fleeing the country in desperation. These are people who have spent the last 20 years working for the US military or former Afghan government. **They have probably flown on more military craft than most of us have ever even seen.** Then it’s still suicide. They’d know firsthand the impossibility of not getting blown off. Unless, as Tired and Cranky pointed out, they were trying to prevent the jet from taking off. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/35 "2021-08-18T19:33:14Z")
As I pointed out upthread, it’s not actually certain death; people have survived. I’m not advocating for the strategy, merely saying I disagree with simply calling it “suicide”. It’s a phenomenally stupid idea, powered by desperation and hope. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/36 "2021-08-18T19:36:10Z")
My Wild-Assed Guess is that **Tired\_and\_Cranky** is right; these guys thought they would stop the plane (or didn’t think). They hopped on, had to decide they’d guessed wrong and jump off quickly; the faster the plane went, the more they hesitated, the faster it went Once the plane was doing over, say, 50mph they probably looked at the hard concrete going by and really had no choice but to hang on. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/37 "2021-08-18T20:00:43Z")
Please look up; British Airways Flight 5390 (If I could figure out how to link to it I would. Someone cleverer than I will have to do that, thanks in advance!) This story addresses your questions I suspect! ---
**Author:** ![Akaj](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/akaj/32/145_2.png) [@Akaj](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Akaj)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/38 "2021-08-18T20:10:59Z")
> [@elbows](#): > > British Airways Flight 5390 > **[British Airways Flight 5390](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_5390)** > > British Airways Flight 5390 was a flight from Birmingham Airport in England for Málaga Airport in Spain. On 10 June 1990, the BAC One-Eleven 528FL suffered an explosive decompression. While the aircraft was flying over Didcot, Oxfordshire, an improperly installed windscreen panel separated from its frame, causing the captain to be partially ejected from the aircraft. He was held in place through the window frame for 20 minutes until the first officer landed at Southampton Airport. > The County ... Crazy story! ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/39 "2021-08-18T20:27:24Z")
Agreed, most people will experience fatigue of finger grip within a small number of minutes, if they are just hangingg on with their hands. Also, I think it’s probably out of scope for this thread, but I just wanted to add: when a person is hanging onto a bar that is accelerating, the blood will drain faster from their arms due to g forces, and the fatigue will set in sooner ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [August 18, 2021, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038/40 "2021-08-18T20:35:15Z")
> [@Snarky\_Kong](#): > > It’s not remotely true that a moderately fit person can hang from a bar indefinitely. Yep. I think the world record for what’s basically called a “dead hang” is only something like 16 minutes. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/morbid-question-at-what-speed-does-it-become-impossible-to-hold-on-to-the-outside-of-an-airplane/949038.md?page=3)