# "More Abortionists Killed on Law & Order" Than In Real Life: True or Not? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [July 1, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205 "2010-07-01T16:30:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/1 "2010-07-01T16:30:43Z")
One conservative blogger I read likes to toss out the claim that “More abortionists have been murdered on the TV series \*\*\*Law & Order \*\*\*and its spinoffs than in real life.” I’m looking for factual confirmation or rebuttal of this assertion. So, does anyone know if that is, in fact, true? ---
**Author:** ![Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/8baadc/32.png) [@Nicest\_of\_the\_Damned](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nicest_of_the_Damned)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/2 "2010-07-01T16:52:41Z")
How are we defining “abortionists”? Do the two clinic receptionists killed by John Salvi count? Here is a wiki link for “Anti-abortion violence in the United States” > **[Category:Anti-abortion violence in the United States](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Anti-abortion_violence_in_the_United_States)** > > This category has the following 4 subcategories, out of 4 total. > The following 13 pages are in this category, out of 13 total. This list may not reflect recent changes. Going through an episode guide for all the Law and Order shows would probably take a while. Wiki lists 4 series as well as crossovers and adaptations so I guess we would first have to figure out which of those would count: > **[Law & Order](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_&_Order)** > > Law & Order is an American police procedural and legal drama television series created by Dick Wolf and produced by Wolf Entertainment and Universal Television, launching the Law & Order franchise. > Law & Order aired its entire run on NBC, premiering on September 13, 1990, and completing its 20th season on May 24, 2010. On September 28, 2021, after an 11-year hiatus, NBC announced that the series would be revived for a 21st season, which premiered on February 24, 2022. The revival saw the deb... ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/3 "2010-07-01T16:56:28Z")
The blogger is wrong. No abortionists were ever killed on **Law and Order**. At the most, they were _actors_ portraying abortionists, and I’m pretty sure they actually lived. Last I checked, snuff films were illegal in the US. ---
**Author:** ![puddleglum](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puddleglum/32/137_2.png) [@puddleglum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puddleglum)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/4 "2010-07-01T18:57:03Z")
As far as I can tell 5 abortion doctors have been killed in the US and 4 support personnel. As best as I can tell from wikipedia there were 3 abortion doctors killed on Law and Order, 1 on Criminal Intent, and 1 on SVU. So if you count all the shows there have been the same amount of abortion doctors killed in real life as on the various Law and Orders. ---
**Author:** ![TWDuke](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e495f1/32.png) [@TWDuke](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TWDuke)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/5 "2010-07-01T19:44:54Z")
Here’s a cite to back that up (PDF): [http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/assets/files/Abortion-Access-to-Abortion-Violence.pdf](http://www.prochoiceamerica.org/assets/files/Abortion-Access-to-Abortion-Violence.pdf) It lists 4 doctors and 4 others who have died, and seems to have been compiled before the murder of Dr. Tiller. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/6 "2010-07-01T21:09:14Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Last I checked, snuff films were illegal in the US. :smack: **Now** he tells me! Excuse me, I have to make some phone calls. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/7 "2010-07-02T13:31:09Z")
No abortionists have been murdered in the USA. Some doctors who perform abortions have been murdered. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/8 "2010-07-02T13:56:13Z")
I’d say a bigger distortion is that of the race/class profile of the criminal class in any city. Law and Order is a straight-faced depiction of what Tom Wolfe called “the search for the Great White Defendant.” ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/9 "2010-07-02T14:15:44Z")
Annie-Xmas: > [@](#): > > No abortionists have been murdered in the USA. > > Some doctors who perform abortions have been murdered. Oh, give me a break. “No abolitionists raided Harper’s Ferry. People who supported the abolition of slavery raided Harper’s Ferry.” “No suffragists were arrested for voting illegally. Women who advocated equal suffrage were arrested for voting illegally.” “No prohibitionists raided saloons and broke their liquor bottles. People who supported the prohibition of alcohol raided saloons and broke their liquor bottles.” Is this either necessary or productive? ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/10 "2010-07-02T14:19:25Z")
While L&O has been keeping up fairly well with the murder rate among physicians who perform abortions, I think they’ve fallen behind real life when it comes to portraying intimidation at clinics and acts of overt violence such as bombings. > [@cmkeller](#): > > Is this either necessary or productive? “Abortionist” is a pejorative term that has historically been used to describe physicians who performed illegal abortions. In today’s society it also may be inaccurate in the case of some physicians who provide other medical services (“abortionist” implies that’s all you do). ---
**Author:** ![chrisk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@chrisk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chrisk)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/11 "2010-07-02T14:26:19Z")
> [@Annie-Xmas](#): > > No abortionists have been murdered in the USA. > > Some doctors who perform abortions have been murdered. As I understand the term ‘abortionist’, this is impossible, as it is a set of people that includes both doctors who perform abortions, and those who advocate for the legal right to abortions. If nothing, I would suspect that some abortionists have been killed in the USA in murders that have absolutely nothing to do with their activities or beliefs with respect to abortion. But - if you’re using the term in a different way, then please tell me who you would consider to be an abortionist. And if you just object to the use of the word in general, then you could make that point too, but the above rephrasing is not IMHO the right way to do it. **Jackmannii** : That’s a good point, and something along the lines that I was fishing for. Incidentally, do we know for certain if any practitioners of illegal abortion were murdered in the US? ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/12 "2010-07-02T14:33:01Z")
Jackmanii: > [@](#): > > “Abortionist” is a pejorative term that has historically been used to describe physicians who performed illegal abortions. I thought that was **back-alley** abortionist. > [@](#): > > In today’s society it also may be inaccurate in the case of some physicians who provide other medical services (“abortionist” implies that’s all you do). Does “abolitionist” or “suffragist” or “prohibitionist” imply that the people so described have no thoughts or opinions on any other subject? chrisK: > [@](#): > > As I understand the term ‘abortionist’, this is impossible, as it is a set of people that includes both doctors who perform abortions, and those who advocate for the legal right to abortions. I imagine there are few doctors who oppose the legal right to an abortion who will also perform abortions. It’s probably safe to say that one who is an abortionist in medical practice is one in political opinion as well. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/13 "2010-07-02T14:34:06Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > While L&O has been keeping up fairly well with the murder rate among physicians who perform abortions, I think they’ve fallen behind real life when it comes to portraying intimidation at clinics and acts of overt violence such as bombings.“Abortionist” is a pejorative term that has historically been used to describe physicians who performed illegal abortions. In today’s society it also may be inaccurate in the case of some physicians who provide other medical services (“abortionist” implies that’s all you do). Exactly! > [@chrisk](#): > > As I understand the term ‘abortionist’, this is impossible, as it is a set of people that includes both doctors who perform abortions, and those who advocate for the legal right to abortions. Excuse me? I am pro-legal abortion. That hardly makes me an abortionist. Anti-abortion people absolutely hate to use the word “doctor” to describe someone who performs abortions. > [@abortionfacts.com](#): > > Who does the procedure? Never call him/her a doctor. They don’t deserve the dignity that “Doctor” calls forth. Also, don’t use “surgeon.” Call them “abortionists.” Never deviate from that title. The word “abortionist” is one of condemnation, of criminality, of killing. That is the label they deserve. And that is why I don’t use that term. ---
**Author:** ![BrotherCadfael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@BrotherCadfael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrotherCadfael)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/14 "2010-07-02T14:58:54Z")
> [@athelas](#): > > I’d say a bigger distortion is that of the race/class profile of the criminal class in any city. Law and Order is a straight-faced depiction of what Tom Wolfe called “the search for the Great White Defendant.” And the number of top-level executives, CEOs, and politicians who commit murders is waaaaaaaaayyyyy overrepresented. ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/15 "2010-07-02T15:06:22Z")
> [@BrotherCadfael](#): > > And the number of top-level executives, CEOs, and politicians who commit murders is waaaaaaaaayyyyy overrepresented. And the number of children kidnapped by strangers in a single year… just in New York City… is roughly analogous to the number of children kidnapped by strangers in the entire country in a year. The fact that L&O has been more or less restrained when it comes to abortion doctors is amazing. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/16 "2010-07-02T15:38:18Z")
I compiled some rough _Murder, She Wrote_ statistics: the first 132 episodes (and presumably their 132 murders, with a few extra here and there) were nominally based in Maine. The total number of murders in Maine over roughly the same period (1985-1990, inclusive) is 202. I was surprised. I’d kind of expected the fictionalized total to be higher. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/17 "2010-07-02T15:58:49Z")
Annie XMas: > [@](#): > > Anti-abortion people absolutely hate to use the word “doctor” to describe someone who performs abortions. > > Quote: > Originally Posted by [abortionfacts.com](http://abortionfacts.com) > Who does the procedure? Never call him/her a doctor. They don’t deserve the dignity that “Doctor” calls forth. Also, don’t use “surgeon.” Call them “abortionists.” Never deviate from that title. The word “abortionist” is one of condemnation, of criminality, of killing. That is the label they deserve. > > And that is why I don’t use that term. Fair enough. But the word still fits, and is useful if describing someone who’s killed specifically because of the abortions he’s performed. If the OP were to have referred to “doctor killings” that would hardly convey the meaning of his question, which was about killings motivated specifically by the victim’s performance of abortions. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Borgia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/larry_borgia/32/156_2.png) [@Larry\_Borgia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Borgia)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/18 "2010-07-02T16:03:43Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > One conservative blogger I read likes to toss out the claim that “More abortionists have been murdered on the TV series \*\*\*Law & Order \*\*\*and its spinoffs than in real life.” > > I’m looking for factual confirmation or rebuttal of this assertion. > > So, does anyone know if that is, in fact, true? I find it strange that the blogger didn’t provide numbers. If he’s so sure this is true, he must have counted them. But even if it is true, so what? More meteors are stopped by Superman than have threatened the earth in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/19 "2010-07-02T16:06:05Z")
> [@cmkeller](#): > > Fair enough. But the word still fits, and is useful if describing someone who’s killed specifically because of the abortions \*\* he’s\*\* performed. If the OP were to have referred to “doctor killings” that would hardly convey the meaning of his question, which was about killings motivated specifically by the victim’s performance of abortions. Bolding added. Female doctors perform abortions too. Don’t use the term killer; use the term “murderer.” And I’d say “a docor who was a victim of anti-abortion violence, murdered for performing the legal act of abortion.” ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 2, 2010, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205/20 "2010-07-02T16:14:04Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > And the number of children kidnapped by strangers in a single year… just in New York City… is roughly analogous to the number of children kidnapped by strangers in the entire country in a year. > > The fact that L&O has been more or less restrained when it comes to abortion doctors is amazing. I would also say according to the show, a significant percentage of murders in NYC occur in and around the New York Supreme Court building at Foley Square. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-abortionists-killed-on-law-order-than-in-real-life-true-or-not/545205.md?page=2)