# More About Moses and Pharoah **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 26, 2012, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841 "2012-09-26T01:06:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2012, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/21 "2012-09-30T16:22:56Z")
> [@Hottius\_Maximus](#): > > I find the Jewish Exodus to be a fascinating story. So…if God sends Moses to impress the Pharoah with magic, how in the world were the court magicians ALSO able to turn canes into live snakes? Any ideas? FYI—I asked the nun in 7th grade how that was done, and she said “Well, when you sell your soul, you can do anything.” The issue of selling one’s soul to Satan is another topic for another day if someone wishes to pick up on it, I however do NOT see the ancient Egyptians even believing in Satan to actually sell their souls to him. So, does anybody have any thoughts on how the ancient Egyptian court magicians were able to accomplish this feat? Damned if I know, I’m still trying to figure out how Harry Potter could summon a Patronus. Both really good books though ---
**Author:** ![Freakenstein](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b782af/32.png) [@Freakenstein](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freakenstein)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/22 "2012-10-01T09:19:46Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > It’s a mistake to think of God and Satan as equal adversaries or two sides to the same coin. Generally speaking, Christianity does not consider Satan in any way a god. Different Christian traditions have different specific teachings, but Satan is alway recognized as a created but fallen being, powerful and evil but not all-powerful and eternal like God is. Usually he’s considered to be basically a fallen angel Wasn’t he in the OT sort of God’s hit-man and all ‘bad’ he did was mandated by God. And it was only in the NT where he started his own business. ? ---
**Author:** ![Steken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@Steken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steken)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 9:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/23 "2012-10-01T09:42:59Z")
> [@Freakenstein](#): > > Wasn’t he in the OT sort of God’s hit-man and all ‘bad’ he did was mandated by God. And it was only in the NT where he started his own business. ? Not quite. He is still God’s hit-man, or rather God’s torturer, in 1 Timothy 1:20: > [@](#): > > Among them are Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom I have handed over to Satan to be taught not to blaspheme. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/24 "2012-10-01T10:13:09Z")
I smell a " Good Cop - Bad Cop" setup here. I think we’ve been had. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/25 "2012-10-01T14:15:45Z")
Good Book by David Plotz (an absolutely excellent read) points out that the magic trick the magicians couldn’t do is make lice appear? Make lice appear? How many lice do you think were on the heads of the people at that time? ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [October 1, 2012, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/26 "2012-10-01T16:05:55Z")
I have a vague memory of listening to something a while back - I think it was a course on Egyptian history by The Teaching Company - where the lecturer cited sources from ancient Egypt itself. These sources made it clear that the snake trick was a commonly done “magic” trick by street magicians of the time. We may not know exactly how it was done, but apparently it was the equivalent of pulling a quarter out of someone’s ear, or predicting where the queen of spades ends up. ---
**Author:** ![temp\_user](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@temp\_user](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/temp_user)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/27 "2012-10-03T02:59:17Z")
Speaking about other gods, I posted a similar thought in another thread regarding angels, demons and Satan: if they don’t age, don’t die, can’t be killed or captured, live in a different time/space continuum and have powers and abilities far beyond those of me, then I’d say they are gods. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/28 "2012-10-03T04:02:51Z")
**temp user** : functionally, yeah… But the Judeo-Christian entities are so severely limited in independence and volition, they’re less “god-like” than they are servant-like. Even Hermes, sometimes the messenger of the Greek Gods, had his own agenda, and followed it often. Iris was, perhaps, more like a servant. It’s hard to respect someone as “godlike” when they can be hauled in by the ear and made to display deep ritual obeisance. Trelane, the Squire of Gothos, is an example. In much the same way: are wood-sprites, Dryads, the centaurs of the hills, fauns, Naiads, and the like, “gods?” Some say yes, following a line of reasoning similar to yours. They are supernatural entities with powers beyond our own, and at least some of them are also deathless (at least until killed by a hero.) Others say no. Tricky; the term doesn’t have an universally agreed-upon definition. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [October 3, 2012, 7:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841/29 "2012-10-03T07:19:09Z")
> [@temp\_user](#): > > Speaking about other gods, I posted a similar thought in another thread regarding angels, demons and Satan: if they don’t age, don’t die, can’t be killed or captured, live in a different time/space continuum and have powers and abilities far beyond those of me, then I’d say they are gods. Yes they are gods, or rather, _used to be_ gods. They are the remnants of the gods people used to believe in before this notion of ‘there is only one God’ came around. Saying they’re no true scotsman gods is just weaseling believers have to do to reconsile the evidence with their idea that there is only one god. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-about-moses-and-pharoah/635841.md?page=1)