# More Americans now call themselves Republicans than Democrats **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 15, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999 "2004-12-15T17:43:15Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/1 "2004-12-15T17:43:15Z")
The Republicans are not just the majority party in government; they now hold the edge against Democrats in national party identification. What has caused this shift in political identification – even as the Republicans themselves move even further to the right? Could it be that the Democrats need to move further to the right or risk losing even more power in Washington (a la Clinton) – I suppose the answer to that question centers on whether this is a true shift to the political right OR if this is more a product of Democratic mismanagement. > [@](#): > > …In Gallup’s latest poll this month, those identifying themselves as Republicans jumped to 37% of the public, with Democrats now clearly trailing with 32%. > > Democrats have long held more party members than Republicans. During the Clinton years, the bulge was about 5% to 6%. As recently as late-October of this year the Democratic edge was 37% to 34%…. [http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/departments/newsroom/article\_display.jsp?vnu\_content\_id=1000736911](http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/departments/newsroom/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000736911) So, back to the question first mentioned above - It’s reasonable to suspect it’s the political moderates that the Democrats are losing. To them, maybe perceived spokesmen, like Michael Moore, don’t seem so moderate. Don’t speak to them or for them. Note that the country watched Moore, along with his films (and books), as he received the Democratic imprimatur at the Democratic Convention, which right or wrong, may very well have connected the two in the moderate mind. – Are the Democrats attempting to be too inclusive, thereby alienating themselves from the middle? Yet, there is an alternate possibility – could it be that Karl Rove is just this much of a political genius? Bush won in 2000 _despite_ the popularity of Clinton / Gore and despite the huge economic growth during that period. Bush won again in 2004 _despite_ the war in Iraq, _despite_ the economy, and _despite_ the budget. In short, what’s the cause of this political shift in party identification **IF NOT** a real move to the right? ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/2 "2004-12-15T18:08:48Z")
I tend to see it as backlash. The pendulum of political thought has been swinging left for some time. Moore, CBS/Rather, and vocal liberal celebrities, et al have shown themselves to Americans, and some Americans have decided that those folks do not represent them. It’s not, after all, a huge swing. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/3 "2004-12-15T18:43:39Z")
The behaviour of many on the left leaves a lot to be desired - deriding Bush as stupid and a chimp almost certainly backfired. However, Bush is quite charismatic, and everyone likes a winner. ---
**Author:** ![scotandrsn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a4c791/32.png) [@scotandrsn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scotandrsn)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/4 "2004-12-15T18:44:32Z")
It’s lingering fear from 9/11 combined with the most effective product the Great GOP Bullshit Machine ever turned out. I hear it time and again, that the Republicans are the only ones willing to use the nation’s millitary might effectively in times of crisis, that when it’s wartime, the Republicans are the ones you need in charge. What’s amazing to me about this is how patently untrue it is, and how easy it is to demonstrate same. We’ve had two major conflicts under Republican presidents in the last 100 years. Nixon won in 1968 with a “secret plan” to win Viet Nam, and 6 years later, the war was pretty much still on, and on its way to our defeat. Now we have Iraq under Bush. Face it: modern Republican presidents really suck at waging war. But the nation at large is still fearful, and the fallacy is stuck. People want to back who they think will win, so they’re telling people they are Republican. Simple as that. ---
**Author:** ![furt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/439d5e/32.png) [@furt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/furt)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/5 "2004-12-15T18:45:04Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > I suppose the answer to that question centers on whether this is a true shift to the political right OR if this is more a product of Democratic mismanagement. False dilemma. Could be both, and in fact I think it is. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/6 "2004-12-15T18:45:32Z")
“despite the economy”? The economy is doing pretty well by almost all measures, so I don’t think that part holds water. It’s probably too early to jump all over this statistic, and your cite even notes that: > [@](#): > > Gallup noted today: “Post-election shifts in partisanship after presidential elections or midterm congressional elections are not routine, but are also not uncommon.” I’d take a wait-and-see approach to this type of data. And there is still roughly 1/3 of the electorate which is unafiliated. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/7 "2004-12-15T18:52:14Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > Nixon won in 1968 with a “secret plan” to win Viet Nam, and 6 years later, the war was pretty much still on, and on its way to our defeat. Er…correct me if I’m wrong here, but wasn’t it the Democrats that got us into that mess in the first place? Are you going to be willing to hold Democrats feet to the fire in, say, 4 year, if they gain power with a great plan for Iraq and it all goes to shit? Just curious. BTW, what about Korea? To answer the OP, I don’t think these statistics mean anything at all…probably just a reflection on how folks voted this time. Americans have always been fairly loose with how they lable themselves politically. I know a lot of people who are registered Democrat and almost always vote Republican…and vice versa. Or are registered Independant but who vote predominently one party or the other. Take another poll in 4 years and see how it comes out after Bush has had his run, when we know a bit more about how Iraq is going to go, when we have a better idea where the economy is going exactly…and when we find out if Bush is going to do ANY of the things he promised during the election. -XT ---
**Author:** ![Wrath](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/ee7513/32.png) [@Wrath](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wrath)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/8 "2004-12-15T18:54:37Z")
> [@](#): > > most effective product the Great GOP Bullshit Machine ever turned out And what would that be? Both campaigns were a JOKE. John Kerry topped the internet search engines’ lists leading up to the election and folks concluded they didn’t want him. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/9 "2004-12-15T18:54:53Z")
> [@furt](#): > > False dilemma. Could be both, and in fact I think it is. Or, it could be that the Republicans shamelessly exploited the tragedy of 9/11, impugned the patriotism and loyalty of their political opponents, and have manufactured a charismatic image around an utter mediocrity, a pampered and privileged non-entity who hadn’t done anything worth hearing about in his entire life. Just sayin’. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/10 "2004-12-15T19:02:47Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Or, it could be that the Republicans shamelessly exploited the tragedy of 9/11, impugned the patriotism and loyalty of their political opponents, and have manufactured a charismatic image around an utter mediocrity, a pampered and privileged non-entity who hadn’t done anything worth hearing about in his entire life. > > Just sayin’. That sounds like a tentative vote for Karl Rove. Yet - if what you say is the case — saying Republican handlers are bad doesn’t keep those candidates out of office nor does it prevent the publics identification with the Republican Party. And Rove is somewhere, with someone, grooming that person for a run in 2008. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/11 "2004-12-15T19:05:41Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Or, it could be that the Republicans shamelessly exploited the tragedy of 9/11, impugned the patriotism and loyalty of their political opponents, and have manufactured a charismatic image around an utter mediocrity, a pampered and privileged non-entity who hadn’t done anything worth hearing about in his entire life. > > Just sayin’. And the Democrats couldn’t win against that strategy? Just how stupid (or naive) are THEY? Come on, **'luc**. You’re smart enough not to blame the “mean ol’ Republicans”, aren’t you? The Democrat’s strategy was “anyone but Bush”, which was a big mistake. Kerry was a lousy candidate with a failed campaign strategy. Will the Dems be smart enough NOT to nominate another Senator from the Northeast next time, or will HRC’s seductiveness overcome common sense? ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/12 "2004-12-15T19:16:29Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > …or will HRC’s seductiveness overcome common sense? I saw a recent article which indicated that 45% (or so) of New York voters would vote for a “generic Republican” over Hillary. Considering these are New York voters — and not some state in the south or mid-west - her national “seductiveness” might be questioned. It appears that the Democrat Party just might need one giant ‘makeover.’ ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/13 "2004-12-15T19:19:13Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > And the Democrats couldn’t win against that strategy? Just how stupid (or naive) are THEY? When it comes to running a campaign? Pretty damn stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Tigers2B1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc29f/32.png) [@Tigers2B1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tigers2B1)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/14 "2004-12-15T19:22:30Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > I saw a recent article which indicated that 45% (or so) of New York voters would vote for a “generic Republican” over Hillary. Considering these are New York voters — and not some state in the south or mid-west - her national “seductiveness” might be questioned. It appears that the Democrat Party just might need one giant ‘makeover.’ Correction – that was a **national** poll done by Rasmussen - > [@](#): > > … A new poll finds if the next presidential election were held today, 46 percent of voters would choose a generic Republican candidate over front-running Democrat Sen. Hillary Clinton, who would get just 39 percent of the vote. > The survey, conducted by Rasmussen Reports, has the New York senator holding a narrow lead among women, 45 to 42 percent, while trailing by 17 points among men…. [http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=41925](http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41925) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/15 "2004-12-15T19:22:54Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > I saw a recent article which indicated that 45% (or so) of New York voters would vote for a “generic Republican” over Hillary.’ I’m suspicious of that. My understanding is that HRC is pretty popular in NY-- I’d have to see the actual article and how they came to that conclusion. She certainly hasn’t lived up to her stereotype, but that won’t save her on a national level. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/16 "2004-12-15T19:25:07Z")
> [@Tigers2B1](#): > > Correction – that was a **national** poll done by Rasmussen - > > [http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE\_ID=41925](http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=41925) Wow. And I hadn’t even seen this when I wrote that last post. Nationally, she’s toast, but she’s doing pretty well in NY. I have no doubt she’ll be re-elected Senator if she runs again. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/17 "2004-12-15T19:28:00Z")
> [@John Mace](#): > > …Come on, **'luc**. You’re smart enough not to blame the “mean ol’ Republicans”, aren’t you? The Democrat’s strategy was “anyone but Bush”, which was a big mistake. Kerry was a lousy candidate with a failed campaign strategy. Will the Dems be smart enough NOT to nominate another Senator from the Northeast next time, or will HRC’s seductiveness overcome common sense? Well, if it gives you comfort to favor the cynical manipulative party because they aren’t naive, whatever floats your boat. For myself, and many like me, anybody but Bush was an entirely legitimate argument, seeing as how the man has pretty much screwed up everything he’s touched, so far. I was prepared, if need be, to vote for “Fightin’ Joe” Lieberman, and then go puke my guts out behind a tree. How does “lousy candidate” figure when the incumbent is so entirely crapulent? And HRC? C’mon, get real. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/18 "2004-12-15T19:37:38Z")
> [@scotandrsn](#): > > Face it: modern Republican presidents really suck at waging war. Well, sure, if you are willing to blame Viet Nam on Nixon, who got us out, instead of JFK, who got us in, and LBJ, who got us in deeper. And if you don’t count Eisenhower, Reagan, and Bush Sr. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/19 "2004-12-15T19:39:32Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Er…correct me if I’m wrong here, but wasn’t it the Democrats that got us into that mess in the first place? The first US “military advisers” were sent in, after the French withdrawal, by Eisenhower. A Republican, albeit a moderate and generally sensible one. > [@John Mace](#): > > “despite the economy”? The economy is doing pretty well by almost all measures, so I don’t think that part holds water. “All measures” except trivialities like jobs, personal bankruptcies, the deficit, the strength of the dollar on the world market, and the Dow, perhaps. What measures do you have in mind instead? A more instructive poll might consider other/unaffiliated as well - aren’t independents now the largest “party” in the US? A better OP might be “Why have both major parties alienated the affections of so many of their former members?” ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999/20 "2004-12-15T19:40:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Well, if it gives you comfort to favor the cynical manipulative party because they aren’t naive, whatever floats your boat. I’m not favorin’ nobody. I’m just calling it like I see it. > [@](#): > > For myself, and many like me, anybody but Bush was an entirely legitimate argument, seeing as how the man has pretty much screwed up everything he’s touched, so far. I was prepared, if need be, to vote for “Fightin’ Joe” Lieberman, and then go puke my guts out behind a tree. I did not vote for Bush this time. I was actually pretty close to that viewpoint myself. But you and me, we’re the smart ones. We read and analyse stuff. Most people don’t. You need to give them a real reason to change things and you have to SELL it. You can’t just line up any old stiff and expect people to vote for him. But you know this. I KNOW you know this… > [@](#): > > How does “lousy candidate” figure when the incumbent is so entirely crapulent? I think that question answers itself. Anyone who couldn’t beat the crapulent incumbent is, by definition, a lousy conadidate. > [@](#): > > And HRC? C’mon, get real. If the electoin were held today, I’d bet money that HRC would get the nomination. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-now-call-themselves-republicans-than-democrats/279999.md?page=2)