# "More Americans Seeking Dental Treatment At The ER" **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 12, 2012, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501 "2012-03-12T00:14:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/41 "2012-03-21T19:29:31Z")
> [@DirtyBird](#): > > Can your strawman be anymore blatant? I don’t see a strawman. That is what you were suggesting, that whenever medical expenses start to bite, simply tighten the belt yet again. If that is not what you meant, please explain. ---
**Author:** ![Lightnin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lightnin/32/180_2.png) [@Lightnin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lightnin)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/42 "2012-03-21T19:31:31Z")
> [@DirtyBird](#): > > Can your strawman be anymore blatant? What? He’s exactly right. I in no way implied that we can’t afford it. We can. Easily, especially since I’m supposed to get a bonus in just a week or two. Honestly, the timing couldn’t be better. However, that in no way excuses the fact that something like that isn’t covered by insurance- or that we even have to deal with this sort of aggravation. We pay for our insurance- and, over the years, they’ve made a crapload of money off of us- so having to negotiate with them for something preventative like this is pretty effin’ stupid. And, frankly, who the hell is my insurance company that they feel they can second-guess the medical professional? Their entire business model relies upon the gamble that the premiums we pay work out to be less than the money that they have to pay us for a claim- and that’s the problem. If there was a strawman, it was in your implication that I couldn’t afford to pay for it by getting rid of a “luxury” such as my internet access. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/43 "2012-03-21T19:32:13Z")
> [@DirtyBird](#): > > Can your strawman be anymore blatant? It’s not much of a strawman, actually. But getting back to the topic, your post ignores the underlying point - which is that medical insurance is set up so that a medical device which prevents further damage (the retainer, in this case) is not covered. This is not, by itself, necessarily a bad thing. But the excuse they gave was the device only served a cosmetic purpose. Of course, they would have most likely had to cover (after deductible) any medically related damage that came as a result of the denial of coverage. Of course, they’re hoping (A) their customers pay out of pocket, or (B) it actually is cosmetic and no further damage will be done. In the case of (A), what’s the purpose of getting insurance if it doesn’t pay for those sudden, large medical expenses? Also, in the case the dentist is telling the truth that the device is necessary, the result will only be a potentially larger medical bill to the insurance company later. I suppose dentists and their patients could be trying to game the system to get some cosmetic dentistry work done on the cheap, but that just further illustrates that our current medical insurance system has some problems. ---
**Author:** ![gamerunknown](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/6bbea6/32.png) [@gamerunknown](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gamerunknown)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/44 "2012-03-21T19:33:19Z")
> [@](#): > > Can your strawman be anymore blatant? To be fair, 78% of Americans have access to the internet at home, so you are asking them to give up something significant just in order not to lose their teeth. Presumably not the kind of decisions one would expect from an employed individual in a first world country. By the way, blastomas are no joking matter. If that’s really the case, I’d go see a doctor and quickly. Edit: Actually it is a completely bizzare position that could have been crafted by the Heritage foundation… You’re complaing about paying $1000 in addition to your insurance, yet you have the gall to post on the internet?! Communist! ---
**Author:** ![Minnie\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Minnie\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Minnie_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/45 "2012-03-21T20:37:39Z")
I work at a dental school. Our treatment costs are not that much cheaper for a cash patient than they are at a regular dentist. Maybe 20% less than a regular clinic and we offer a 10% senior citizen discount. We also used to run an emergency dental clinic, but that has gone away. Medicaid is covering less and less in the way of dental treatments. From a recent email from our practice manager: > [@](#): > > As a reminder these benefit changes are: > > Root Canal Therapy Benefits will be discontinued(except in extremely rare cases that the patient could be seriously affected or denial of the tx could result in death) for patients 21 and Over > > Crown and crown related benefits will be discontinued(except in extremely rare cases that the patient could be seriously affected or denial of the tx could result in death) for patients 21 and Over. > > Periodontal benefits will be discontinued(except in extremely rare cases that the patient could be seriously affected or denial of the tx could result in death) for patients 21 and Over. > > Partial, Complete, and Immediate dentures are now limited to ONE PER ARCH PER LIFETIME. There is no longer a five year replacement benefit. > > Please note that the language above regarding these procedures indicates that there is a possibility that there might be benefits available for a patient over the age of 21.This language comes from the carriers themselves and as you are aware it is an extraordinarily rare circumstance that a patients’ life would be jeopardized by not having these types of services performed. > The approval process to get benefits approved(called BLE) for a patient over 21 is very cumbersome, time consuming, and likely not fruitful. We have not had any approvals in the instances we have made such requests .We have been told that less than 1% of the requests filed have been approved for benefits. ---
**Author:** ![Filbert](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/filbert/32/3433_2.png) [@Filbert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Filbert)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/46 "2012-03-21T21:40:06Z")
Just a different perspective from the UK. Dental coverage here really depends where you live- where I used to live, it was an odd combination of a lot of retired people in twee villages, and a very economically depressed nearby city. There was one dentist close that would accept NHS patients, and they had a massive waiting list- as soon as I moved away, I was taken off the registry and could not get back on, leaving me without a dentist for 7 years- not that I tried very hard to find one in fairness. Non-NHS dentists were common there, but a lot more expensive, so I never considered registering with one, with no real tooth problems. However, there was (and I think this is the case in most large towns) an emergency dentist around 10 miles away, who would do NHS treatment, but would only book appointments for that day, so you had to phone first thing in the morning, sometimes for a few days, to get through. This was not available for routine care, only for problems. I went once, it was very busy, but seemed perfectly competent. Where I live now, in a large city, there are several dentists advertising NHS spaces, and I had no problem finding one. My teeth were fine after the 7 year gap by the way 😃 At an NHS dentist, unlike NHS doctors, adults normally have to pay a fee towards the treatment; a check-up, which can include X-rays and cleaning is £17. The maximum charge is £204 for crowns, dentures and bridges. You should only pay once for each set of treatments (everything diagnosed in one session, I think), even if it takes several sessions to complete. ([cite](http://www.nhs.uk/NHSEngland/Healthcosts/Pages/Dentalcosts.aspx) ) All under 18s, and a lot of people on low income don’t have to pay this contribution, and get free treatment- if they can get to an NHS dentist. All residents are eligible for NHS treatment at the standard rate. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/47 "2012-03-21T23:23:15Z")
From what I’ve seen of dental insurance premiums on esurance they aren’t any cheaper than paying out of pocket with a dental discount plan. The cost of the premiums, deductible and copay in a year for insurance is not that great (plans seem to cap out at $1000). It adds up to hundreds a year in premiums and copays. A dental discount plan charges $100 for an exam and cleaning and about $50 for a filling. So I don’t know how much it would matter, if any. At least if you are only going in for things like exams, cleanings, fillings and extractions, you probably come out ahead by paying cash rather than using insurance. If you need a ton of root canals and your insurance doesn’t cap at 1k you may come out ahead. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2012, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/48 "2012-03-21T23:34:06Z")
I’m not sure I understand why people don’t have dental insurance. No dental insurance is all that great being really more of a 50% discount system for rendered services with most offering higher reductions on preventative treatment (many of them providing no out of pocket preventative dental.) However, while dental insurance in itself isn’t all that great, I’m not sure of a better way to get 50% off nor am I aware of dental insurance that is all that expensive. I just priced private individual dental insurance on a few different websites and was quoted prices from $15-$21/mo. When I was in State government I seem to remember the optional dental plan was $12.95/mo, so the private plans aren’t much more expensive. ---
**Author:** ![Eva\_Luna](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e495f1/32.png) [@Eva\_Luna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eva_Luna)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/49 "2012-03-22T00:02:39Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m not sure I understand why people don’t have dental insurance. > > No dental insurance is all that great being really more of a 50% discount system for rendered services with most offering higher reductions on preventative treatment (many of them providing no out of pocket preventative dental.) However, while dental insurance in itself isn’t all that great, I’m not sure of a better way to get 50% off nor am I aware of dental insurance that is all that expensive. > > I just priced private individual dental insurance on a few different websites and was quoted prices from $15-$21/mo. When I was in State government I seem to remember the optional dental plan was $12.95/mo, so the private plans aren’t much more expensive. That’s if you’re willing to use the very few included dentists in cheap plans like that. I calculated my estimated expenses (I normally have really boring teeth and only need cleanings - I just had the first filling I’ve needed in 30 years). My dental insurance is not subsidized (I could take the dental HMO, but my dentist isn’t included, and I’ve gone to the same dental practice literally ever since I had teeth and would like to keep it that way), and there’s a $1,000 annual max benefit. Even though the cleanings are free, it still doesn’t make financial sense given how expensive the premiums are, even this year when I actually needed a filling. ---
**Author:** ![rat\_avatar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rat_avatar/32/255_2.png) [@rat\_avatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rat_avatar)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/50 "2012-03-22T00:39:12Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I’m not sure I understand why people don’t have dental insurance. > > No dental insurance is all that great being really more of a 50% discount system for rendered services with most offering higher reductions on preventative treatment (many of them providing no out of pocket preventative dental.) However, while dental insurance in itself isn’t all that great, I’m not sure of a better way to get 50% off nor am I aware of dental insurance that is all that expensive. > > I just priced private individual dental insurance on a few different websites and was quoted prices from $15-$21/mo. When I was in State government I seem to remember the optional dental plan was $12.95/mo, so the private plans aren’t much more expensive. You assume that your “50%” off dental plan is a good deal. Most doctors have “cash discounts” that are close to what most Dental plans I have seen offer. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/51 "2012-03-22T00:50:15Z")
> [@Martin\_Hyde](#): > > I just priced private individual dental insurance on a few different websites and was quoted prices from $15-$21/mo. My wife’s dental insurance was $70/month. The bottom line was, she didn’t save any money, even though she had frequent procedures. Plus, they wouldn’t pay for any repair to a tooth that had already been repaired once. Well, that was most of her teeth. ---
**Author:** ![DirtyBird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7c8e57/32.png) [@DirtyBird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DirtyBird)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2012, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501/52 "2012-03-22T12:15:51Z")
> [@gamerunknown](#): > > You’re complaing about paying $1000 in addition to your insurance, yet you have the gall to post on the internet?! Communist! He wouldn’t be paying his insurance company… [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-americans-seeking-dental-treatment-at-the-er/615501.md?page=2)