More Atheists Than I Thought!

[ambushed]

@sturmhauke

You’re arguing against a point that TimeWinder never made.

Wrong, wrong wrong – that’s simply not true! Consider what the word “never” means in that sentence of yours. You’re being unduly selective in citing what he wrote and ignoring the evidence. You’re reading things in his post that simply are not there! He did NOT qualify his statements there in the way you falsely claim. You’re ignoring his/her actual words.

TW revised himself later, as I already pointed out, but in the post this whole brouhaha is about, he wrote:

@TimeWinder

Name even a single instance of this, ever. (underlining mine)

Note what the words “single” and “ever” mean – it means there are NO qualifications, NO exceptions, NO nuances. It means there has NEVER been ANY incident where secularists have tried to restrict the public display of faith. And that’s just flat WRONG. Please tell me that you know that as well as I do!

TW next wrote:

@TimeWinder

Seriously, this is one of the things that bothers me most. I can’t remember a single case, ever, of someone trying to tell you that you can’t display your faith in public, except in the sort of curtesy sense of not praying loudly in libraries.

Note again what the words “single” and “ever” mean! That means there are NO exceptions, NO qualifications, NO nuances! So I challenged TW’s claims and memory. I wrote:

@ambushed

How could you not have heard of all the hundreds of times we secularists have told believers they can’t display their faith in public places? Such as with Christmas creches on public property? Such as with enormous crosses on public property? Such as with the Ten Commandments in courthouses? Sure, we have excellent legal and constitutional arguments for our views, but to deny that we’ve tried to limit public displays of faith makes you out to be a fool.

TW wrote the following next.

@TimeWinder

I hear this all the time from the religious, how we’re trying to make their kids not pray in schools, make them not say “under god” in the pledge, make them not honor or display the ten commandments

Note again what the words “trying” and “not” mean. TW did NOT qualify his words as you so falsely assert! He did NOT say “private schools”, he just said “schools”! And it’s a LIE to say no one has ever tried to stop people from saying “under God” in the pledge, just as it’s a LIE to say no one has restricted those who display the Ten Commandments.

TW next wrote:

@TimeWinder

Nonsense. Such an attempt would be unconstitutional, but the same “freedom of religion” clause that we athiests so cherish.

There, TW flatly asserted that it would be unconstitutional to try to restrict the public display of faith, even when that display itself violates the Constitution! What’s wrong with your comprehension?

TW then went on to write:

@TimeWinder

Let me be completely clear on this point: Pray all you want, whenever you want… Believe and display your belief however, whenever, and in whatever form you want.

Note what the words “whenever”, “however”, and “whatever” mean! TW made NO exception for illegal, unconstitutional prayer or displays of faith, which means his statements were false, just as I claimed.

Show me where TW qualified those words I’ve quoted, otherwise admit you are and were wrong. I stand by what I’ve written.

[Beaucarnea]

@monavis

Not all Christians feel persecuted, just those who have doubts about their beliefs unless every one believes the same as they do. The first and early Christians didn’t display their faith in public places, I think the modern Christians in the USA have sincere doubts about their own faith and there fore are afraid they may be wrong and need bolstering up by public display.

If they really trusted in their God they would just pray and live as their faith instructs them to do.

Before the 50’s" Under God" was not added to the Pledge, The world is no better since it was added. Displaying The Ten Commandments doesn’t help to convert anyone. The majority of people in Prisons are not atheists.

There is a difference in being spiritual and religious. Jesus pointed this out(According to the gospel writer) in his criticism of the Pharisees .for makeing a public display of their faith instead of just living it. Being religious is not ignorance as religion appeals to the emotions and satisfies an emotional need to most believers.

Monavis

Neatly put, Monavis.

[sturmhauke]

@ambushed

Show me where TW qualified those words I’ve quoted, otherwise admit you are and were wrong. I stand by what I’ve written.

I’m trying to see what you mean, but I just don’t see it. I already highlighted what I think is the essential point TimeWinder was trying to make. Maybe he chose some words that don’t meet your apparently strict criteria, but that doesn’t invalidate the whole of his point. Your screeching about it is certainly not going to convince anybody you’re right, either.

[ambushed]

@sturmhauke

I’m trying to see what you mean, but I just don’t see it. I already highlighted what I think is the essential point TimeWinder was trying to make. Maybe he chose some words that don’t meet your apparently strict criteria, but that doesn’t invalidate the whole of his point. Your screeching about it is certainly not going to convince anybody you’re right, either.

Sigh. Never mind.

[mswseezer]

@Sunrazor

I believe (and this is just my belief, based on many, many years of formal and informal education, and having read everything I can get my hands on concerning the subject of religion) that gods and, by distillation, God, were invented to explain the unexplainable.

Beautiful. Very true.

[mswseezer]

@Sunrazor

I believe (and this is just my belief, based on many, many years of formal and informal education, and having read everything I can get my hands on concerning the subject of religion) that gods and, by distillation, God, were invented to explain the unexplainable.

Beautiful. Very true.

[cosmosdan]

Originally Posted by Sunrazor
I believe (and this is just my belief, based on many, many years of formal and informal education, and having read everything I can get my hands on concerning the subject of religion) that gods and, by distillation, God, were invented to explain the unexplainable.

As a believer I see no reason to disagree with this. From here there are still questions. What is left unexplained and what will we discover? Will it be purely a physical understanding of our universe or might we discover that there is indeed something more that connects us all that remains unverifiable by objective evidence? It is simply beyond us at this point to answer.

[CurtC]

@cosmosdan

…or might we discover that there is indeed something more that connects us all that remains unverifiable by objective evidence?

If something is unverifiable by objective evidence, then in what sense is it real?

[ambushed]

@mswseezer

Beautiful. Very true.

Beautiful it may be, but it’s just not true. I used to believe it myself before I read a great deal more about religion, evolution, anthropology, brain physiology, and psychology. An excellent synopsis is found in Pascal Boyer’s hugely important book, Religion Explained: The Evolutionary Origins of Religious Thought