[QUOTE=sturmhauke]
You’re arguing against a point that TimeWinder never made.
[/QUOTE]
Wrong, wrong wrong – that’s simply not true! Consider what the word “never” means in that sentence of yours. You’re being unduly selective in citing what he wrote and ignoring the evidence. You’re reading things in his post that simply are not there! He did NOT qualify his statements there in the way you falsely claim. You’re ignoring his/her actual words.
TW revised himself later, as I already pointed out, but in the post this whole brouhaha is about, he wrote:
[QUOTE=TimeWinder]
Name even a single instance of this, ever. (underlining mine)
[/QUOTE]
Note what the words “single” and “ever” mean – it means there are NO qualifications, NO exceptions, NO nuances. It means there has NEVER been ANY incident where secularists have tried to restrict the public display of faith. And that’s just flat WRONG. Please tell me that you know that as well as I do!
TW next wrote:
[QUOTE=TimeWinder]
Seriously, this is one of the things that bothers me most. I can’t remember a single case, ever, of someone trying to tell you that you can’t display your faith in public, except in the sort of curtesy sense of not praying loudly in libraries.
[/QUOTE]
Note again what the words “single” and “ever” mean! That means there are NO exceptions, NO qualifications, NO nuances! So I challenged TW’s claims and memory. I wrote:
[QUOTE=ambushed]
How could you not have heard of all the hundreds of times we secularists have told believers they can’t display their faith in public places? Such as with Christmas creches on public property? Such as with enormous crosses on public property? Such as with the Ten Commandments in courthouses? Sure, we have excellent legal and constitutional arguments for our views, but to deny that we’ve tried to limit public displays of faith makes you out to be a fool.
[/QUOTE]
TW wrote the following next.
[QUOTE=TimeWinder]
I hear this all the time from the religious, how we’re trying to make their kids not pray in schools, make them not say “under god” in the pledge, make them not honor or display the ten commandments
[/QUOTE]
Note again what the words “trying” and “not” mean. TW did NOT qualify his words as you so falsely assert! He did NOT say “private schools”, he just said “schools”! And it’s a LIE to say no one has ever tried to stop people from saying “under God” in the pledge, just as it’s a LIE to say no one has restricted those who display the Ten Commandments.
TW next wrote:
[QUOTE=TimeWinder]
Nonsense. Such an attempt would be unconstitutional, but the same “freedom of religion” clause that we athiests so cherish.
[/QUOTE]
There, TW flatly asserted that it would be unconstitutional to try to restrict the public display of faith, even when that display itself violates the Constitution! What’s wrong with your comprehension?
TW then went on to write:
[QUOTE=TimeWinder]
Let me be completely clear on this point: Pray all you want, whenever you want… Believe and display your belief however, whenever, and in whatever form you want.
[/QUOTE]
Note what the words “whenever”, “however”, and “whatever” mean! TW made NO exception for illegal, unconstitutional prayer or displays of faith, which means his statements were false, just as I claimed.
Show me where TW qualified those words I’ve quoted, otherwise admit you are and were wrong. I stand by what I’ve written.