# More attacks on education for advanced students **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [February 28, 2021, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948 "2021-02-28T14:35:48Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/41 "2021-03-01T20:25:06Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I guess I’m still not sure what the issue is. I assume we can all agree that Boston is temporarily suspending an advanced program due to a possible racial bias. They clarified that it was due to the pandemic, the other issue was a part of the reason, and if the other sources the OP likely got it from do not correct, it is then a very good reason why to drop them as reliable sources. It is a lesson that many on the right need to learn. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/42 "2021-03-01T20:30:53Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > The headline in the OP was what appeared on the article yesterday, when I posted it. They sneakily changed it in the meantime. Yes, but then the focus should change, or then we continue to discuss the non-operative spin from the right wing sources that you used. Not very fulfilling. (Really, finding that report from an American school in Europe or elsewhere does not happen unless the sources that you use like to focus on race issues that they see as problematic, and in this case while the fault is with the original source, the ones copy pasting that are missing to report the correction to others). ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/43 "2021-03-01T20:36:02Z")
The WGBH article says it was due to the pandemic and _“and concerns about equity in the program”_. Isn’t that what we’re focusing on? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/44 "2021-03-01T20:42:32Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > The WGBH article says it was due to the pandemic and _“and concerns about equity in the program”_ . Isn’t that what we’re focusing on? Unless they clarify more, the main reason was the pandemic. This is like the other item mentioned in passing by the OP, the last time the use of a lottery in schools was discussed to death, it turned out that it was a moot point when the school in question dropped that idea, and also when it was pointed out that other schools have used lotteries for a long time and the world did not end. Until I see what they will do after the pandemic is over, this discussion is, as I pointed out; just following a right wing spin that is not as important as the OP wanted. ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2021, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/45 "2021-03-01T23:31:07Z")
I don’t know why you keep bringing up right wing spin; I guess so you can ignore it. The superintendent explicitly said that part of the reason for cancellation was the inequality of the program: > “There’s been a lot of inequities that have been brought to the light in the pandemic that we have to address,” Cassellius told GBH News. “There’s a lot of work we have to do in the district to be antiracist and have policies where all of our students have a fair shot at an equitable and excellent education.” BPS canceled a program for high-performing students due to potential racism. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/46 "2021-03-02T04:05:30Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > BPS canceled a program for high-performing students due to potential racism. Again, that was not the main reason. And again, we will see how important the secondary one was once they do deal with the issue. BTW previous history does show that refusing to acknowledge that there **is** unfairness is one item that the right wing sources avoid to look at properly, this is because they are trying very hard to turn items like that into a wedge issue between Asians Vs other minorities. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/47 "2021-03-02T05:02:37Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > {…} Boston is one of the most liberal cities in the nation and yet the education for minorities sucks. {…} History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake… [![](https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/09/18/image16_custom-4c9be3a24736e8ef26663debc2219333ed960566-s800-c85.png) ](https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2016/09/18/image16_custom-4c9be3a24736e8ef26663debc2219333ed960566-s800-c85.png) > **[The Soiling of Old Glory](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Soiling_of_Old_Glory)** > > The Soiling of Old Glory is a Pulitzer Prize-winning photograph taken by Stanley Forman during the Boston busing crisis in 1976. It depicts a white teenager, Joseph Rakes, assaulting a black man—lawyer and civil rights activist Ted Landsmark—with a flagpole bearing the American flag (also known as Old Glory). > The image was taken for the Boston Herald American in Boston, Massachusetts, on April 5, 1976, during one in a series of protests against court-ordered desegregation busing. It ran on the f... ---
**Author:** ![Deeg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/deeg/32/2955_2.png) [@Deeg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Deeg)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/48 "2021-03-02T05:27:08Z")
Yeah, Boston, like a lot of northern cities, has a checkered past with racism. I suppose it’s not as bad as southern cities but when liberals go on about how southern conservatives are the devil and the cause of all evil I just shake my head. Seattle, another liberal city I’ve lived in, was better in regard to blacks but they have an ugly history with asians. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 9:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/49 "2021-03-02T09:36:15Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > Yeah, Boston, like a lot of northern cities, has a checkered past with racism. I suppose it’s not as bad as southern cities but when liberals go on about how southern conservatives are the devil and the cause of all evil I just shake my head. > > Seattle, another liberal city I’ve lived in, was better in regard to blacks but they have an ugly history with asians. I’m surprised to hear there is so much segregation, and poor education for the majority in a liberal city. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > this is because they are trying very hard to turn items like that into a wedge issue between Asians Vs other minorities. Liberals have control of this. If you want to avoid the right turning it into a wedge issue, then tell the school boards and colleges to stop discriminating against Asians. They can’t make it an issue if it isn’t happening. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/50 "2021-03-02T15:52:32Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Liberals have control of this. If you want to avoid the right turning it into a wedge issue, then tell the school boards and colleges to stop discriminating against Asians. They can’t make it an issue if it isn’t happening. Bullseye, it is clear that you did not learn about the context from past discussions, it is enough to say that I would not had replied the way you did because it demonstrates my point. It acknowledges that it is indeed an effort from the right to divide others. (What do you think a wedge is?) Second: There is a reason why to look at who gave you that spin, the extreme right is in favor of dividing others. In the past affirmative action benefited specific Asians, that is not lost on the Asians that benefited from AA who are working in academia now, the ones that are involved too nowadays in looking to make an issue better for other minorities do realize that it can be a bit inconvenient now for a few Asians, just as many whites realized in the past that it would be inconvenient to a few whites in the past to give an opportunity to others. Still, they managed to do the right thing. So yes, you need to get better sources of information too. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/51 "2021-03-02T16:04:47Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Bullseye, it is clear that you did not learn about the context from past discussions, it is enough to say that I would not had replied the way you did because it demonstrates my point. It acknowledges that it is indeed an effort from the right to divide others. (What do you think a wedge is?) No, you don’t get it. There really is discrimination against Asians in education. The right are pointing this out and trying to benefit from it (rather hypocritically), but it’s the left who are driving wedges by literally pitting one minority against another. You are blaming the messenger for the message. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/52 "2021-03-02T16:11:51Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > No, you don’t get it. There really is discrimination against Asians in education. The courts in the USA did say that that is wrong. > [@DemonTree](#): > > The right are pointing this out and trying to benefit from it (rather hypocritically), but it’s the left who are driving wedges by literally pitting one minority against another. You are blaming the messenger for the message. And that shows that you missed the overall point I’m making here. This wedge was manufactured, if it was a misunderstanding days ago, it is now a manufactured one simply because the clarification made was that the pandemic was the reason, not the one made up by the right (this is because no correction will be seen coming from your sources as usual), so the right is the one that is demonstratively making the wedge here. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/53 "2021-03-02T16:26:16Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > The courts in the USA did say that that is wrong. By no means have all the examples been tested in court. > [@GIGObuster](#): > > And that shows that you missed the overall point I’m making here. This wedge was manufactured, if it was a misunderstanding days ago, it is now a manufactured one simply because the clarification made was that the pandemic was the reason, not the one made up by the right (this is because no correction will be seen coming from your sources as usual), so the right is the one that is demonstratively making the wedge here. My source did post a correction, and the reason wasn’t made up by the right but was one of two reasons given by the people in charge. They just didn’t make clear originally that the pandemic was the principle reason for suspending the exam next year. And sure, we don’t know what decisions the Boston school system will eventually make, but the examples we discussed previously, in NY and Virginia are pretty clear cut and the right has nothing to do with them. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/54 "2021-03-02T16:34:57Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > My source did post a correction, and the reason wasn’t made up by the right but was one of two reasons given by the people in charge. They just didn’t make clear originally that the pandemic was the principle reason for suspending the exam next year. And sure, we don’t know what decisions the Boston school system will eventually make, but the examples we discussed previously, in NY and Virginia are pretty clear cut and the right has nothing to do with them. Meh, like if those were not also moot points. (There was no lottery anymore while the thread was continuing on and on like a chicken without a head) The point stands, this would not had made a ripple if the original source would not had opined instead of describing the real reason, but then the right wing will continue harping about this until kingdom come without ever making a correction. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/55 "2021-03-02T17:00:12Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > I don’t know why you keep bringing up right wing spin; I guess so you can ignore it. The superintendent explicitly said that part of the reason for cancellation was the inequality of the program: > > > “There’s been a lot of inequities that have been brought to the light in the pandemic that we have to address,” Cassellius told GBH News. “There’s a lot of work we have to do in the district to be antiracist and have policies where all of our students have a fair shot at an equitable and excellent education.” > > BPS canceled a program for high-performing students due to potential racism. Because that’s not what it says. The statement you quoted says nothing at all about the gifted programs. And it was later clarified that this statement was independent of the reason the gifted programs would be on pause. It is indeed understandable at first to infer the pause was enacted due to the inequalities mentioned, as they were discussed together. But the article has been updated with a clarification that this was a miscommunication. So, now that the miscommunication has been withdrawn, it should no longer be in play. As quoted earlier in the thread: > [Superintendent] Cassellius told GBH News that equity concerns about the advance work program were not the motivation for suspension of the test this year. To now ignore that statement and instead insist on the earlier misunderstood one would come off as disingenuous. Yet that is predictably what the conservative outrage machine is continuing to do. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/56 "2021-03-02T18:28:54Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > Yet that is predictably what the conservative outrage machine is continuing to do. So what is the ‘conservative outrage machine’ saying? Do you watch Fox news or something to keep up on it? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/57 "2021-03-02T18:35:53Z")
> [@Deeg](#): > > My own opinion is that while liberals talk the talk, when it comes down to their own children they act just like any other bigot. In boston white students either go to private schools or get funneled into programs like in the OP or the exam schools. As someone pointed out: > **[If You Send Your Kid to Private School, You Are a Bad Person](https://slate.com/human-interest/2013/08/private-school-vs-public-school-only-bad-people-send-their-kids-to-private-school.html)** > > You are a bad person if you send your children to private school. Not bad like murderer bad—but bad like... ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/58 "2021-03-02T18:38:13Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > So what is the ‘conservative outrage machine’ saying? Do you watch Fox news or something to keep up on it? This was already linked at, it was fairly easy to find when the outrage is cut and paste and no corrections are coming. Most on the right do get their information from sources like that and from ~~anti~~ social media. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/59 "2021-03-02T18:43:11Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > As someone pointed out: Reading it to the end, one can see that that is an opinion, **and directed to liberals that do that and complain later about the quality of public schools.** ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2021, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948/60 "2021-03-02T18:44:41Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > Reading it to the end, one can see that that is an opinion, **and directed to liberals that do that and complain later about the quality of public schools.** Exactly. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attacks-on-education-for-advanced-students/933948.md?page=4)