# More attempts to shut down speech **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 25, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520 "2014-10-25T21:59:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Fiddle\_Peghead](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fiddle_peghead/32/3506_2.png) [@Fiddle\_Peghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiddle_Peghead)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/61 "2014-10-27T17:16:43Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > it is just funny how liberals now believe that the govt is the solution and not the problem. complete opposite of what they used to be. The definition of “liberalism” is today so nebulous as to be practically meaningless. But insofar as one could be determined, I would wager that nowhere in it would there be the tenet that government is the solution to ALL problems. Would so-called liberals believe that government is the solution to more problems than conservatives? I don’t know, but I would also wager that it depends on the particular problems under discussion. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/62 "2014-10-27T17:17:00Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > the funny thing is.….liberalism is by definition “distrust of govt”. Thomas Jefferson was a liberal. that what liberalism used to be. it is just funny how liberals now believe that the govt is the solution and not the problem. complete opposite of what they used to be. It’s like how “federal” means opposite of centralized government, yet it now means centralized government. ---
**Author:** ![Strassia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@Strassia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Strassia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/63 "2014-10-27T18:23:08Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > That’s a very good argument but exactly why should the FCC be able to regulate the internet but not the cable channels and why should the FCC be able to regulate the content of TV and radio(non-satellite) broadcasts but not that of the internet. The FCC’s mandate is regulating public communication. In the U.S. the EM spectrum is considered public property. Broadcasters do not own their frequency; they have a license to use it. Just like driver’s licenses have strings attached, so do broadcast licenses. Not following the FCC rules is more like a contract violation than a crime. The FCC’s concern about the internet has more to do with which wavelengths and what areas you can set up a wireless WAN, or how much unintentional EM your hardware emits. The FCC has rules about political speech (specifically the equal-time rule), but they are more about not using public resources to influence elections. They do not apply to adds, but only to air time given to candidates for free. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/64 "2014-10-27T18:52:09Z")
> [@Strassia](#): > > They do not apply to adds, but only to air time given to candidates for free. I’m sorry, but what are “adds”? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/65 "2014-10-27T18:56:45Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > I’m sorry, but what are “adds”? Something better than the “minuses” that you bring. And since you’re stupid, addvertisements. ---
**Author:** ![andros](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e480ec/32.png) [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/66 "2014-10-27T18:58:16Z")
**ty·po** **ˈtīpō** _noun, informal_ a typographical error. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/67 "2014-10-27T19:03:08Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Something better than the “minuses” that you bring. > > And since you’re stupid, addvertisements. Moderators? I thought that personal insults weren’t allowed in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/68 "2014-10-27T19:23:25Z")
> [@D\_Anconia](#): > > Moderators? I thought that personal insults weren’t allowed in this forum. The thing that looks like a road sign up there on the top right of each post is what you’re looking for. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Anconia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/67e7ee/32.png) [@D\_Anconia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Anconia)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/69 "2014-10-27T19:27:04Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > The thing that looks like a road sign up there on the top right of each post is what you’re looking for. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/70 "2014-10-27T20:05:42Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > I don’t have a solution. It’s not a problem I can pretend to have much expertise on. However, I do know that I don’t trust such info to be used impartially. We are talking of politicians here. The biggest bunch of self interested shysters going(on all sides). I assume you are quite a political beast. Think of _your_ political opponents. Think how nasty and underhand you believe them to be. Well, the chances are _your_ side are just as damn underhand and nasty, most people just don’t wish to see it. Giving all these vested interest politicians more power is about the last thing I wish to see. What a bunch of right wing bullshit. We know that the right wing think the left wing is willing to do all the terrible things the right wing is doing, but it just isn’t true (see below). And trying to use the fact that one side thinks the other MIGHT be as unethical your side, and then using that as an excuse to do terrible shit… well, that’s terrible. > [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Here’s a list of prior mis-uses of the IRS. You can add many, many more to the list: > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_allegations\_of\_misuse\_of\_the\_Internal\_Revenue\_Service](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_allegations_of_misuse_of_the_Internal_Revenue_Service) Your own cite only shows confirmed, actual misuse of the IRS by Republican presidents (Nixon and W. Bush). Every other instance is just alleged. Your attempt to draw equivalence has failed. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/71 "2014-10-27T21:30:03Z")
> [@cornopean](#): > > the funny thing is.….liberalism is by definition “distrust of govt”. Yeah, that’s pretty funny all right! 😃 What dictionary did that “definition” come from? Extra questions for bonus points: Who famously said "_government is not the solution to our problem; government **IS** the problem"_? A liberal or a conservative? What advocate of small government said, when asked just how “small” government should be, “_small enough to drown in a bathtub_”? Was he a liberal or a conservative? What political ideology tends to believe that all of society’s problems can be solved by the heroic (and apparently completely altruistic) efforts of private enterprise and free markets, and that government just gets in the way? What political ideology is especially inclined to stockpile guns just in case they need to “fight government tyranny”? ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/72 "2014-10-27T21:33:06Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Something better than the “minuses” that you bring. > > And since you’re stupid, addvertisements. I’m going to give the warning here, but I’m ambivalent about it. running coach reported his own post and fell on his sword because he didn’t realize he was in Great Debates. Nonetheless, I appreciate all the reports people sent in. That’s exactly how it should work. ---
**Author:** ![Stringbean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Stringbean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stringbean)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/73 "2014-10-27T21:59:17Z")
> [@wolfpup](#): > > Yeah, that’s pretty funny all right! 😃 > > What dictionary did that “definition” come from? > > Extra questions for bonus points: > > Who famously said "_government is not the solution to our problem; government **IS** the problem"_? A liberal or a conservative? > > What advocate of small government said, when asked just how “small” government should be, “_small enough to drown in a bathtub_”? Was he a liberal or a conservative? > > What political ideology tends to believe that all of society’s problems can be solved by the heroic (and apparently completely altruistic) efforts of private enterprise and free markets, and that government just gets in the way? > > What political ideology is especially inclined to stockpile guns just in case they need to “fight government tyranny”? I believe he was referring to Classical Liberalism, which emphasized individual autonomy over the “collective will” of government. That the opposite is generally true today, conservatives triumphing individual endeavor and free market economics, was his point. All these labels though, are essentially meaningless. Politicians want power. When we grant them the power to regulate speech, political or otherwise, they are likely to abuse that power, whether R or D. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [October 27, 2014, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520/74 "2014-10-27T22:33:22Z")
> [@Stringbean](#): > > All these labels though, are essentially meaningless. Politicians want power. When we grant them the power to regulate speech, political or otherwise, they are likely to abuse that power, whether R or D. I agree. But this has nothing to do with the issue raised in the OP, which the OP may prefer to claim is about free speech but is really about disclosure and transparency. Requiring disclosure of the form “this message paid for by X” attached to any paid public message _ **seeking to influence an election** _ is not an impediment to free speech – it’s essential accountability. It’s an impediment only to those who seek to subvert democracy through secret backroom financing and dark anonymity. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-attempts-to-shut-down-speech/702520.md?page=3)