# More businesses you suspect of being fronts? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 15, 2013, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985 "2013-11-15T15:05:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/61 "2013-11-18T17:41:31Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Little hole-in-the-wall resale shops pop up in my city all the time, and usually fold as quickly (their life expectancy seems to be measured in weeks) but there are a few that are probably hobby businesses, if they are legitimate, because they really are “junk stores”. The downtown area of Royal Oak, MI has a bunch of these little “Boutique Stores,” plus a bunch of antique stores. (The difference, as near as I can tell, is that a boutique store is usually run by an old lady, while the owner of an antique store will most likely be a gay guy.) I sometimes wonder about these stores. It’s interesting to wander around in them and look at the random stuff on display, but they don’t seem to have that many actual sales, and I have a hard time imagining how the owners can make a living. ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/62 "2013-11-18T20:31:54Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I suspect a _ **lot** _ of churches are not legit. I figure it’s the _perfect_ front organization, since you don’t have to worry about inventory, bookkeeping, etc. “Oh, look… Gertrude donated another $5000 last Sunday. She is so sweet.” No, that wouldn’t work out. Gertrude would try to deduct the donation from her taxes, and eventually the state or IRS would catch up if the “church” was not properly documenting it. You hear about clergy being arrested all the time for financial malfeasance, so I just don’t think it would be a viable front organization… ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/63 "2013-11-18T20:41:43Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > No, that wouldn’t work out. Gertrude would try to deduct the donation from her taxes, and eventually the state or IRS would catch up if the “church” was not properly documenting it. You hear about clergy being arrested all the time for financial malfeasance, so I just don’t think it would be a viable front organization… Agreed. Not to mention the fact that churches do, indeed, need to keep books, and provide documentation to the state and the IRS, in order to maintain their non-profit status. I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be possible to have a church as a front for nefarious activity, but it’s not nearly as simple as, “churches don’t need to keep books, so it’s a perfect plan!” ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/64 "2013-11-18T21:15:00Z")
> [@delphica](#): > > It’s not quite a business, but lately I have become rather obsessed with the weird flyers that are posted in the subway (NYC) for psychics and palm readers and tarot card readers. Design-wise, they’re terrible. Black and white, sometimes they have clip art of something mystical-looking, they look like they were created in Microsoft Works, and are now 50th generation photocopies. Claim to give advice based on some combination of your astrology, palm, tarot, or tea leaves, with a phone number. > > I guess the thing I find so odd is that sure, I’d believe that one dopey “psychic” business is using these flyers, but it is a bunch of different ones and yet the flyers look so similar. At this point, it’s like you’d have to MAKE AN EFFORT to re-create that 1995 sad look. > > So I have been wondering if this is one of those things where everyone knows that these flyers are really for prostitutes, or drug dealers, or something illegal. I’m almost tempted to call one and make an appointment, and then show up and demand answers about the flyers. The places are probably all owned by members of one family and the person in charge of advertising is less than competent. They may well be recycling a flyer orginally created in 1995 on 50th generation photocopies. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/65 "2013-11-18T21:24:34Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I always have a vague idea modern sex-shops are fronts for…something? Given the ubiquity of porn on the internet and the fact that you can order toys online without the awkwardness of having to make eye-contact with a bored store-clerk while buying that extra-large tri-dildo with ridges, it seems like there are much better options for buying the same thing. There’s an adult shop on my way home nestled between a couple ratty motels and an auto repair joint. Plain pre-fab steel building, no windows, parking in back. I can see the parking lot as I go by though and it’s always packed. I stopped by once just to take a look and there were few people in the actual shop. I guess in back they have movie viewing booths and that’s where everyone was but I had no interest in going back there. I’ve no idea if the back booths are just a bunch of lonely dudes, one to a booth wanking (even in this age of insta-porn) or if they’re going two to a booth for group fun or what. But since they have to pay for the booths (via renting time with the movie) I guess that’s where the shop’s bread and butter comes from. I wouldn’t touch the butter though. ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/66 "2013-11-18T21:33:26Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > … I’ve no idea if the back booths are just a bunch of lonely dudes, one to a booth wanking (even in this age of insta-porn) or if they’re going two to a booth for group fun or what. But since they have to pay for the booths (via renting time with the movie) I guess that’s where the shop’s bread and butter comes from. I wouldn’t touch the butter though. I’m guessing the bread’s a bit soggy too. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/67 "2013-11-18T21:55:57Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > I suspect a lot of churches are not legit. I figure it’s the perfect front organization, since you don’t have to worry about inventory, bookkeeping, etc. “Oh, look… Gertrude donated another $5000 last Sunday. She is so sweet.” > [@runningdude](#): > > No, that wouldn’t work out. Gertrude would try to deduct the donation from her taxes, and eventually the state or IRS would catch up if the “church” was not properly documenting it. You hear about clergy being arrested all the time for financial malfeasance, so I just don’t think it would be a viable front organization… > [@kenobi\_65](#): > > Agreed. Not to mention the fact that churches do, indeed, need to keep books, and provide documentation to the state and the IRS, in order to maintain their non-profit status. I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be possible to have a church as a front for nefarious activity, but it’s not nearly as simple as, “churches don’t need to keep books, so it’s a perfect plan!” I think you are misunderstanding Crafter. There is no actual “Gertrude” – they just slip $5000 cash into the collection basket, thereby ‘laundering’ the money. People drop cash into church collection baskets all the time, anonymously. How could the IRS do anything about that? ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2013, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/68 "2013-11-18T21:57:10Z")
> [@Dave\_Hartwick](#): > > I laughed at this when I first read it, because the idea of a non-profit front sounded so silly, at least if we’re talking organised crime, and churches are hierarchical. You can’t just open or take over a, say, Methodist church without the governing structure knowing and caring. > … I would be more concerned about independent churches. E.g. “Bible Power Church of the New Covenant, Full Gospel of the New World”. There are a lot of these in the South and Appalachia, and when driving by you can’t really tell what they believe or how conservative they are. Walking in would likely be beyond your comfort zone because you have no idea what it’s like or what kind of people attend, so you move along. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/69 "2013-11-19T00:23:02Z")
> [@filmore](#): > > In the street view it looks like there is an attached house in the back. I’m guessing that’s his house and he owns the lot. Likely he opened the shop back in the '80s and he has a few clients he still works with. It’s probably more of a retirement/hobby business than anything else. > > I think there are a lot of businesses where the owner owns the building and doesn’t really need to make a profit. As long as the inventory doesn’t expire, it doesn’t really matter if they make a lot of money. Book stores, curio shops, etc. I recently stumbled upon a business like this in my town. It’s a bookstore that’s open 4 hours a week - 10-2 on Saturdays, or by appointment. The man who runs it lives next door and owns the building, a former corner grocery that’s in a residential neighborhood and is zoned for a bookstore only. His wife opened and ran it, and died last year and he keeps it open as a tribute to her. ---
**Author:** ![Suburban\_Plankton](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/suburban_plankton/32/219_2.png) [@Suburban\_Plankton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Suburban_Plankton)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/70 "2013-11-19T01:36:17Z")
> [@Simplicio](#): > > I always have a vague idea modern sex-shops are fronts for…something? Given the ubiquity of porn on the internet and the fact that you can order toys online without the awkwardness of having to make eye-contact with a bored store-clerk while buying that extra-large tri-dildo with ridges, it seems like there are much better options for buying the same thing. > > Granted there’s probably a thin slice of the population that have money to pay for porn but can’t afford internet access, and I guess if you need a dildo _right now_ and can’t wait, mail-order won’t cut it. But I wouldn’t think those cases would make enough business in most places. I imagine that their customers probably prefer a face-to-face, but untraceable, cash transaction rather than to provide their credit card number and address to some Internet porn shop. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/71 "2013-11-19T17:18:01Z")
> [@Suburban\_Plankton](#): > > I imagine that their customers probably prefer a face-to-face, but untraceable, cash transaction rather than to provide their credit card number and address to some Internet porn shop. Yeah, because he doesn’t want his wife finding the leather he uses with his male lover, or she doesn’t want him finding out about the edible undies she sure as heck wasn’t using with him, etc. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/72 "2013-11-19T17:22:14Z")
A little internet research tells me that my previously mentioned adult store is used for cruising so I guess it does make the bulk of its sales from viewing booth tokens. I suppose that’s not really a “front” since paid viewing booths aren’t something its hiding. Not like its selling live panda cubs out of the back office or something. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/73 "2013-11-19T19:04:13Z")
> [@Jophiel](#): > > A little internet research tells me that my previously mentioned adult store is used for cruising so I guess it does make the bulk of its sales from viewing booth tokens. > > I suppose that’s not really a “front” since paid viewing booths aren’t something its hiding. Not like its selling live panda cubs out of the back office or something. There’s an “adult store” not far from my house. It operates in conjunction with, and has the same hours as, the strip club next door. Last year, a man broke into the “toy store” after hours, and for unknown-to-me reasons walked around the store naked. :dubious: He was identified by his tattoos, one of which was his name on his back in 6-inch letters. 😛 :smack: ---
**Author:** ![runningdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e9c0ed/32.png) [@runningdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/runningdude)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/74 "2013-11-19T20:53:29Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > I think you are misunderstanding Crafter. There is no actual “Gertrude” – they just slip $5000 cash into the collection basket, thereby ‘laundering’ the money. People drop cash into church collection baskets all the time, anonymously. How could the IRS do anything about that? They would still need to report that 5000 dollars to the IRS, and document what was done with it… The paper trail, or even the lack of a proper paper trail, would still be risky to a criminal enterprise. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Lurker\_Above](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@The\_Lurker\_Above](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Lurker_Above)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/75 "2013-11-19T21:07:25Z")
> [@runningdude](#): > > They would still need to report that 5000 dollars to the IRS, and document what was done with it… > > The paper trail, or even the lack of a proper paper trail, would still be risky to a criminal enterprise. You go ahead and document it as salary to the ‘minister’. The whole point is to take illegitimate cash and turn it into legitimate-looking income with a paper trail. This is harder with cash businesses since the government knows roughly how much stock a given type of business needs to buy for a given level of sales. But with cash donations from ‘parishioners’ you don’t have worry about being caught claiming $100,000 worth of drycleaning sales when you only bought enough chemicals for $50,000 worth. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2013, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/76 "2013-11-19T21:09:24Z")
> [@The\_Lurker\_Above](#): > > You go ahead and document it as salary to the ‘minister’. The whole point is to take illegitimate cash and turn it into legitimate-looking income with a paper trail. > > This is harder with cash businesses since the government knows roughly how much stock a given type of business needs to buy for a given level of sales. But with cash donations from ‘parishioners’ you don’t have worry about being caught claiming $100,000 worth of drycleaning sales when you only bought enough chemicals for $50,000 worth. The IRS is not stupid. If the minister of a storefront church is driving a fleet of luxury cars, they have no problem investigating further. ---
**Author:** ![rbroome](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/838e76/32.png) [@rbroome](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rbroome)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/77 "2013-11-20T01:44:05Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I would be more concerned about independent churches. E.g. “Bible Power Church of the New Covenant, Full Gospel of the New World”. There are a lot of these in the South and Appalachia, and when driving by you can’t really tell what they believe or how conservative they are. Walking in would likely be beyond your comfort zone because you have no idea what it’s like or what kind of people attend, so you move along. Independent churches are all over the south (and maybe other places, I don’t know). I also figure many of them have be a laundering scam. I imagine the collection plate gets a lot of the same denomination bills every sunday. Another angle is the preacher him/herself. There are a lot of tax breaks for a church. Get over the hurtle of getting approved by the IRS and keep a reasonable set of books and the preacher can get out and about helping himself and others in many ways. And perhaps other things as well. It strikes me as a perfect setup. I happen to know a large church a few miles from me where the preacher is part-time. His day job is a New Orleans cop. An interesting combo. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/78 "2013-11-20T01:50:18Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The IRS is not stupid. If the minister of a storefront church is driving a fleet of luxury cars, they have no problem investigating further. and then there’s a big fuss raised about _‘the IRS is targeting Christian Churches’_ in all the media. Didn’t we see a similar one recently? ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/79 "2013-11-20T04:14:55Z")
> [@rbroome](#): > > Independent churches are all over the south (and maybe other places, I don’t know). There are quite a few of those in the Midwest, too. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [November 20, 2013, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985/80 "2013-11-20T18:08:00Z")
How about that Hebrew Franks factory in Long Island right after you come off the bridge? No way are they making kosher frankfurter’s … they are nestled right between one giant grave yard. 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-businesses-you-suspect-of-being-fronts/673985.md?page=5)