# More Child Molestation Today? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2006, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809 "2006-12-19T18:34:17Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/21 "2006-12-20T22:56:52Z")
[QUOTE=Fear Itself] You forgot the last choice: d. There is less child molestation occurring today than in the past. [/quote] I would like to add one more possibility: “false positives,” or accusations that are not true. In a highly-charged climate, it is easy to make accusations, whether from ignorance, misjudgement, or by someone deliberately trying to ruin another’s reputation. ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/22 "2006-12-20T23:30:31Z")
[QUOTE=Ensign Edison] Sage Rat, do you have a cite for any of that? [/QUOTE] Unfortunately no. I did a series of papers on the subject in college, so read various books on child development, interviews with pedophiles, interviews with sociopaths, etc. But these were all library books. And I do realise that item #3 sounds like something that homophobes arguing that gay people are “baby rapers” would spout, but it really was something that seemed to come up fairly regular in the interviews I read. I would guess about half (of about twenty interviews.) But, indeed, all of them admitted to having been molested as children. ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 20, 2006, 11:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/23 "2006-12-20T23:48:38Z")
[QUOTE=Musicat] I would like to add one more possibility: “false positives,” or accusations that are not true. In a highly-charged climate, it is easy to make accusations, whether from ignorance, misjudgement, or by someone deliberately trying to ruin another’s reputation. [/QUOTE] There’s also the issue of screwy definitions, like the Romeo-and-Juliet thing where someone just over the age of consent who gets caught having consensual sex with a partner who may be slightly younger than the age of consent. If both parties were just a few months older, no law would be broken. I wonder if there is a uniform legal definition, or if it’s a state-by-state thing. Robin ---
**Author:** ![42Geek](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/4/6bbea6/32.png) [@42Geek](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/42Geek)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/24 "2006-12-21T04:07:33Z")
> [@](#): > > people who are “attracted” to sex with children seem to all, or sufficiently predominately, have been molested as children. I don’t doubt that there are cases of child sex that has more to do with simple sociopathy and such I know I’ve read that most child molesters have been molested themselves. I did used to lurk at a messageboard for pedophilles (there was a link from an anti NAMBLA site) and I recall a couple of posters saying that they had been dx as autistic. I really honestly think that a lot of the non molested folks, who are “attracted to children” are so stunted in their emotional development that they can’t form meaningful relationships with adults. Hard to tell if it’s a chicken or the egg thing. I know that child molesters tend to prey on kids who are loners and don’t have too much “street smarts” The loners feel so psyched that they are finally getting attention, that it doesn’t bother them that it’s negative attention! Like I was a hardcore loner in jr high, and the boy’s jr high school gym teacher actively preyed on teen girls. Thank GOD he gave me the creeps, otherwise I probaly would have been one of his victims! I think sociopathlogy as a direct cause of child molestation, is probaly VERY rare. Although some autistic folks do have some “sociopathic-like” tendancies, like not knowing that a particualr behavoir is wrong. But most of those sociopaths probaly are those assholes who stranger rape women. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 4:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/25 "2006-12-21T04:24:32Z")
[QUOTE=jebert] **More Child Molestation Today?** [/QUOTE] Not today. I’m just worn out. Ask me tomorrow. ---
**Author:** ![Malienation](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4af34b/32.png) [@Malienation](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malienation)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/26 "2006-12-21T07:48:31Z")
My guess is the answer to this will never be known. It used to get no press, now it gets tons of hysterical press. Meanwhile, kids are being taught to be pussies, afraid of the boogeyman and their own shadows. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 8:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/27 "2006-12-21T08:14:59Z")
“That I’ve read, all child molesters were themselves molested as children” Thats incorrect from what I learned, its a claim that used to be made, mostly based on faulty self report research - molesters used to claim it in order to receive reduced sentences and the like. I cant find a direct cite, but know this frequently comes up with male sexual abuse survivors as an issue. The large majority of sexual abuse victims dont go on to become perpetrators, and not all perpetrators were sexually abused themselves, I think it is the majority though. I did find this article, where perp child abuse ranged from 57% to 73%, based on their abuse pattern, but its based on self report and could be wrong in either direction. [http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/ti193.pdf](http://www.aic.gov.au/publications/tandi/ti193.pdf) Otara ---
**Author:** ![ambushed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3bc359/32.png) [@ambushed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ambushed)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 10:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/28 "2006-12-21T10:02:52Z")
Since the goal of the Straight Dope is to fight ignorance, let’s try to debunk this pervasive myth that child sexual abusers were almost always sexually abused themselves. [QUOTE=Sage Rat] No, certainly it is possible for spontaneous molestations of children. But, interview any molester and he’ll admit to having been molested as a child. [/quote] As part of the all-too-common “abuse excuse”, perhaps, but a significant number of such claims are lies (as I’ll demonstrate below). These claims are simply bogus. [QUOTE=Sage Rat] Most molesters appear to share the common traits that: 1. Were molested as a child 2. Are unsuccessful with relationships, so often marry multiple times. 3. Often flirt with gay sex and trying to get into the gay community. 4. Will most often have sex with their own or their step children, rather than some random child. They don’t seem to prefer step children over their biological children, nor the reverse–just that they tend to get remarried often. 5. Began molesting when they lost their job, a family member died, got a divorce, etc. Essentially, they do so when stressed. 6. Will usually say that they knew, “I’m not supposed to do it”, but not in terms of a, “It’s a bad thing to do, like I go to jail stuff.” Again, usually basing this on it having been done to them, without the person who did it getting in trouble. But yes indeed, people who are “attracted” to sex with children seem to all, or sufficiently predominately, have been molested as children. I don’t doubt that there are cases of child sex that has more to do with simple sociopathy and such (i.e. someone wants to screw something, and that’s all that’s around)–which may have been the primordial originator–but that’s really an outlying case. [/QUOTE] I got involved in this issue in the past as part of a lengthy, cautious debate, and I found plenty of scientific data to back up what I’ve said here, including interviews with many molesters who deny ever having been molested. It’s a somewhat common, natural, genetically programmed, non-psychopathological impulse that most of us are either unconscious of or suppress easily as a result of socialization. The majority of the sources of the claims that all or nearly all molesters were molested themselves comes out of vitriolic campaigners on the issue, such as NARTH (National Association for Research and Therapy of Homosexuality) and Laura Schlessinger and pop psychologists and other such “reliable” sources. They are just plain **false**. One of the key questions, naturally, involves whether or not the molestation (I’m going to continue to use the term “molestation” to make it clear that I’m certainly not _defending_ any of this) produces psychopathology in the victims and to what extent. Naturally, if the victim feels that the molestation was coercive or in fact anything other than consensual (accurately or not), the psychological trauma will usually be very real and thus has the potential to produce damaged psyches that may well be more prone to sexual deviancy and even molestation of others.\* But in cases where the victim felt it was consensual (accurately or not), a famous (or infamous, if you’re anti-science, like the U.S. Congress) study showed that this depends primarily on whether the victim was male or female. The clear majority of females believed they experienced some degree of psychological trauma even if they reported the experience as consensual. However, the opposite was true for males, regardless of the sex of the offender. The clear majority of male molestation victims not only didn’t suffer any psychological harm if they felt the sex was consensual, they continue to have positive, warm feelings about those events and have no regrets throughout their lives. They interpret it more as a welcome initiation into sexuality than as an act of abuse or violence or harm against them. (I learned of this study from two issues of _The Skeptical Inquirer_, not NAMBLA 😉 ) So, since most male victims of “consensual” molestation suffered little or no trauma or psychopathology, they’re not likely to molest others. I know what you’re thinking just now: You never claimed that there was a symmetry involved; i.e., you never claimed that all molestation victims become molesters themselves, but rather that all or nearly all molesters were themselves molested. But, again, **that’s just not true**. As a recent British study concluded: > [@](#): > > [T]he indecent assault of females under 16 is by far the most common sexual offence involving children. The implications should be obvious: While females make up _by far_ the greatest number of molestation victims, it is males who make up _by far_ the greatest number of molesters. If past molestation was significantly related to molestation behavior, it would be _women_ who composed by far the greatest number of molesters. This is good (but admittedly not conclusive) evidence that many male molesters were never molested themselves. The numbers are against that premise. I suspect that, while some portion of your information came from anti-scientific zealots, the rest of it came from profoundly unrepresentative studies (of which nearly ALL are, because it’s extremely difficult to find representative samples, as nearly all of them are either self-reporters, convicted criminals, or stand out for some other reason). By far the most common source of people’s (even most professionals’) opinions on the subject come from studies of significantly maladjusted and psychologically damaged sex criminals. And I’d guess it’s likely most of _these_ offenders were coercively molested as children. _These_ are the guys who’ve molested hundreds or thousands of children. _These_ are the sources for your ostensibly (but inaccurately) “scientific” claims and statistics. Consider, for example, the following excerpt from the British study I mentioned above: > [@](#): > > There is a wide range of negative outcomes in adults who experienced sexual abuse in childhood, but it can be difficult to disentangle the effects of this from other adverse childhood experiences such as physical abuse and poor parenting. Many studies in this area do not make allowances for this, and describe associations with, for example, high rates of depressive illness, high rates amongst psychiatric inpatients, or high rates of sexual disturbance and aggression, in a way that suggests causation but neglects to demonstrate it. > > … > > When sexual abuse takes place within the family, or for that matter to a child in care, it is unlikely to be the only profoundly negative influence experienced by the individual. On the other hand, even though a terrifying experience, a child who is abused a single time by a stranger, but who lives within a stable and protective family, may develop little in the way of longer term consequences. Now let’s get to the bottom line. From the British study again, performed by the Policing and Reducing Crime Unit of the British Home Office: > [@](#): > > In a [meta-analysis] of a large number of such studies [to determine the degree to which molesters had a history of being molested themselves], Hanson and Slater (1988) found that on average **[only] about 28% of adult offenders describe sexual victimisation in childhood.** … Hanson and Slater (1988) also observed that while there may be a tendency by non-offenders to under-report their experiences of child sexual abuse, sex offenders may **over-report it in an attempt to gain sympathy, or to excuse their behaviour.** > > … > > **As many men who sexually offend against children do not have a history of abuse themselves** , such a history is clearly not a necessary contributor to adult offending. Similarly, because only a minority of those who are sexually abused go on to offend, a history of sexual victimisation is not sufficient in itself to create a sexual offender. **Histories of childhood sexual abuse in sex offenders are _invariably_ associated with other childhood risk factors such as neglect, family instability, and problematic parenting** (Seghorn et al., 1987; Craissati and McClurg, 1996; Jamesand Neil, 1996). (See \*\*Hanson, R. K. and Slater, S. \*\*(1988) ‘Sexual victimization in the history of sexual abusers: A review’, _Annals of Sex Research_ 1: 485-499.) **I hope that puts that myth to rest once and for all!** - Note the incredibly important point that society and law enforcement are deeply, profoundly complicit with the molester in the emotional and psychological damage done to child sexual abuse victims: by our constant messages of horror at the very thought and the repeated claims that molestation invariably produces horrible and permanent damage to the psyche of these victims, _ **we’re** _ causing a significant part of that damage ourselves. That’s why the study reported in _The Skeptical Inquirer_ seems to me to be such good news: by revealing that it ain’t necessarily so, to the extent to which the study in question is known and disseminated can have a more positive and beneficial effect on our children than what we’re currently doing. (See [The Condemned Meta-Analysis on Child Sexual Abuse: Good Science and Long-Overdue Skepticism](http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_4_25/ai_76881182)) ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2006, 10:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809/29 "2006-12-21T10:13:47Z")
[QUOTE=Sage Rat] 1. Were molested as a child 2. Are unsuccessful with relationships, so often marry multiple times. 3. Often flirt with gay sex and trying to get into the gay community. 4. Will most often have sex with their own or their step children, rather than some random child. They don’t seem to prefer step children over their biological children, nor the reverse–just that they tend to get remarried often. 5. Began molesting when they lost their job, a family member died, got a divorce, etc. Essentially, they do so when stressed. 6. Will usually say that they knew, “I’m not supposed to do it”, but not in terms of a, “It’s a bad thing to do, like I go to jail stuff.” Again, usually basing this on it having been done to them, without the person who did it getting in trouble. [/QUOTE] For my grandfather: 1. was initiated to sex by an authority figure (the wife of the highest-ranking officer in the base) at age 11. Sees it as a “favor” though, not as abuse. After this woman he went, in order of rank, through the beds of every spouse in the company except the Sergeant Brigade’s - but you see, since the Sarge was his da, that would have been my great-grandma’s bed soooo… Notice that this means _other boys in the base got to bed my greatgrandma as part of their “initiation”_ 2. has been married for 68 years to the same woman. All his other relationships have been succesful, since both people involved got what they wanted (sex with no strings attached). 3. gay? Not that I’ve noticed. 4. yes. See numbers 1 and 6, though. 5. as far as I know he’s been obsexed since he was 11. He starts on each descendant when the child in question is that age or thereabouts. 6. he doesn’t see anything bad in it. To him, offering to teach his female-kids how to give a blowjob is a favor to the female-kids future lovers; offering to find a guy who’ll pay “good money” to deflower us is… in his words “hey, why give it for free when someone’s willing to pay? That first time is a bitch, may as well not have it in the way when you really want to”. Bringing his grandsons whoring would be a repeat of his own initiation. He does NOT see anything bad in it. He is completely convinced that he does it for our own good. Those guys in the movies, cackling “hahahaha, I’m so evil”? They’re not real. The evil people think it’s “for your own good”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-child-molestation-today/384809.md?page=1)