# More Deception from G.W. regarding Zarqawi's #2 Man **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 29, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063 "2005-09-29T18:05:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/1 "2005-09-29T18:05:23Z")
[This](http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9518556/site/newsweek/) link to an article today on Newsweek raises several questions: [ul] [li]Does the Administration (including G.W. himself) ever talk with people knowledgable on the subject before opening their mouths?[/li][li]Is this just another case of over exaggeration to further the ability of the Administration to claim “victory” and/or “success”[/li][/ul] I’m really not trying to make this a political debate, but simply ask why this Administration and this President likes to “spin” stories before apparently getting their facts straight or is it just an overriding campaign to decieve the public? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/2 "2005-09-29T18:09:43Z")
From the people who brought you WMD’s and Imminent Threats comes…The Second Man. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/3 "2005-09-29T18:17:09Z")
I know if I was the _third_ man on the depth chart in any of these organizations, I would not accept any promotions, because we are constantly nailing the 2nd guy. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/4 "2005-09-29T18:30:57Z")
> [@Waterman](#): > > I’m really not trying to make this a political debate, but simply ask why this Administration and this President likes to “spin” stories before apparently getting their facts straight or is it just an overriding campaign to decieve the public? I think they don’t _care_ about the facts. Unlike us in the “reality based community”, they think they can make up the world as they go along. ---
**Author:** ![ShibbOleth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@ShibbOleth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ShibbOleth)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/5 "2005-09-29T18:36:20Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > I know if I was the _third_ man on the depth chart in any of these organizations, I would not accept any promotions, because we are constantly nailing the 2nd guy. Yeah, they seem to be the al Qaeda equivalent of an _Enterprise_ junior grade officer in a red shirt. ---
**Author:** ![Waterman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/b2d939/32.png) [@Waterman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Waterman)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/6 "2005-09-29T18:40:08Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > I think they don’t _care_ about the facts. Unlike us in the “reality based community”, they think they can make up the world as they go along. Hear! Hear! (with [this](http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mhear.html) convenient reference). In case you may not have noticed, I’ve just learned how to add links! ---
**Author:** ![New\_Iskander](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/db5fbb/32.png) [@New\_Iskander](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/New_Iskander)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/7 "2005-09-29T19:29:10Z")
> [@Der Trihs](#): > > …us in the “reality based community”… [What Einstein said.](http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/a/alberteins100298.html) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/8 "2005-09-29T20:01:18Z")
Interestingly, Bush himself seems to have things straight. From the OP’s link: > [@](#): > > The characterization of Abu Azzam as No. 2 to Zarqawi is “not quite accurate,” said one of the officials. According to this official, it would be more correct to describe Abu Azzam as a “top lieutenant” to Zarqawi… Also, from the OP’s link (but at the top of the page): > [@](#): > > “This guy was a brutal killer,” Bush told reporters in remarks that were also carried live on cable TV. “He was one of [Abu Mussab al-]Zarqawi’s top lieutenants… ---
**Author:** ![Squink](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b5e925/32.png) [@Squink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Squink)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/9 "2005-09-29T20:17:16Z")
[U.S. intelligence is still struggling to understand the nature of Iraq’s Insurgency insurgency more than two years after the fall of Saddam Hussein, U.S. intelligence chief John Negroponte said on Thursday.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050929/pl_nm/iraq_usa_negroponte_dc) ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [September 29, 2005, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/10 "2005-09-29T20:27:50Z")
From the article that **Squink** linked to: > [@](#): > > The CIA has also warned in a classified report that Iraq was becoming a more effective training ground for foreign terrorists than Afghanistan was during the war against Soviet occupation in the 1980s, which gave rise to Osama bin Laden’s al Qaeda. So, in a sense, that infamous administration official who derided the “reality-based community,” saying that in the current world we make our own reality, was in fact correct. Iraq **wasn’t** a terrorist training ground as we claimed it was at the time that the claim was made…But, by golly, we’ve turned it into one!! And, you people in the “reality based community” think you’re so smart! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [September 30, 2005, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-deception-from-g-w-regarding-zarqawis-2-man/324063/11 "2005-09-30T13:56:31Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > [U.S. intelligence is still struggling to understand the nature of Iraq’s Insurgency insurgency more than two years after the fall of Saddam Hussein, U.S. intelligence chief John Negroponte said on Thursday.](http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050929/pl_nm/iraq_usa_negroponte_dc) I’m sitting waiting for the Usual Suspects to turn up and shout ‘commie-fag terrorist appeaser, why do you hate America’ at Negroponte for trying to understand our enemies. They’ll be along soon , won’t they? Won’t they? Besides - I thought they hate our freedoms because they are just plain evuul. Have I missed a memo or something?