# More Democratic gay-bashing **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 29, 2002, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325 "2002-10-29T00:59:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/61 "2002-10-29T22:38:44Z")
Aww, **Mtgman** , if it makes you feel better, I almost posted, “What **Mtgman** said.” I agree with your posts (including the context in which the sleazy homophobia appears) entirely. Daniel ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/62 "2002-10-29T23:12:11Z")
If it makes anyone feel any better, the Iowa Republican Party (a bunch of moss-backs and reactionaries if there ever was one) has formally and publicly withdrawn support from a candidate for the state legislature from Marion, a town adjacent to Cedar Rapids. The candidate’s misstep was to claim that her opponent was not worthy of representing the district because she was born in India and had no been an Iowan for the first six or eight years of her life. The attack was in some sort of semi-private message board but the Cedar Rapids newspaper broke the story on Sunday and the state party jumped on it on Tuesday. The candidate’s behavior and her response to the loss of party sanction were both pretty outrageous (but I’m afraid not all that rare) and the party apparatus’s response was praiseworthy. I’d like to know if there has been any reaction, public or private, by the good old boys who run the party machinery in South Carolina. ---
**Author:** ![wring](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/838e76/32.png) [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2002, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/63 "2002-10-29T23:38:59Z")
**SG**?? really? The lt. Guv of MI who’s running against the atty General of MI for the gov’ s spot originally aired ads that pointed out the Jennifer Granholm (the atty gen) had been _born in Canada_ (gasps arrise from the audience), had _lived in California_ (women faint). He continues to run ads that pump up his ‘Michigan values’. On the OP, I find it more interesting to note the moderator’s question to the OP. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/64 "2002-10-30T00:28:30Z")
The issue raised by **Dr. Lao** needs to be addressed. It seems obvious to me that the Shih Tzu reference was part of the appeal to gay-bashing. These are little foofy dogs. The voters are supposed to think that only foolish women and those of Unnatural Sexual Orientation would own such animals. It would have been worse if Sanders had made reference to his opponent moving in with a German Shepherd, given the mental pictures certain perverse individuals might have developed Other than that, I feel confident that all dogs are basically conservative. As are certain other animals. As Paul Simon\* said, “Orangutans are skeptical of changes in their cages.” I am thinking about changing my username here to **Democratic Apologist**. \*the singer, not the Senator from Illinois. ---
**Author:** ![David\_B](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/51bf81/32.png) [@David\_B](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_B)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/65 "2002-10-30T01:16:06Z")
When I asked december what his point was, he said: > [@](#): > > My point concerns the myth: Democrats are good people; Republicans are bad people or Democrats are tolerant; Republicans are bigots. This idea is sometimes put forth to attack opponents of some government program such as affirmative action. Has anybody here on the SDMB actually said anything like this? Or are you just arguing against your own straw man? > [@](#): > > 1. The myth isn’t true. (Nor is the reverse true. Most Democrats are good people as are most Republicans.) Wait! You’re kidding me! The **myth** isn’t true?! Could that be why it’s called a **myth**?! > [@](#): > > 1. Some Democrats are so committed to the idea that their party is the “good guys” that they will deny the obvious. And so will _some_ Republicans, and _some_ Libertarians, and _some_ Communists, and _some_ Greens, and… So again I ask, what is your point? ---
**Author:** ![jshore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b5e925/32.png) [@jshore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jshore)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 2:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/66 "2002-10-30T02:06:55Z")
…Seriously, **december** , in this thread you have helped illustrate a variety of different points: (1) That among many people, at least in South Carolina, “liberal” is considered a dirty word. And, people who attack liberalism often engage in slimey attacks to do so. (2) That said “ultra-liberalism” is associated with such things as tolerance and acceptance of gay people (in the mind of Sanders, at any rate, but I think it is pretty clear that this association is quite widespread). (3) That the Democratic party as a whole is far from “liberal”…It is only “liberal” by comparison to the Republican Party (which is extremely conservative overall). What you have not established by any means is that the Democratic Party is, on the whole, much less friendly to gays and gay rights issues than the Republican Party. And you won’t be able to establish that because it is extremely far from being true. Yes, I will readily admit that I (usually) vote for Democrats because they are the only current alternatives to the extremely conservative Republicans, not because they are any great shakes. [Note, however, that the Democratic leadership seems to be reasonably “left” of Sanders at least on social issues.] So, **december** , perhaps together you and I can join forces and work for the day when “liberalism” is a respected word around the entire nation and when tolerance of gays as an example of “ultra-liberalism” in a positive rather than a negative light?!? A day when all Democrats will proudly declare themselves as liberals rather than trying to play a “I’m less liberal than he is” game! Hell, **december** , I think I’m really beginning to like you! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/67 "2002-10-30T02:33:41Z")
**David** YOu have asked twice, and I can’t see where you have been given any reason to keep this open. If my dog was dying as horrible a death as this thread , I would have pulled out my .44 and shot him/her. That is, if I had a gun. But being a liberal democrat, I don’t. Please! ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 2:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/68 "2002-10-30T02:48:33Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by David B \* Has anybody here on the SDMB actually said anything like this [“Democrats are good people; Republicans are bad people”]? Or are you just arguing against your own straw man? At the risk of gently mocking a mod, I note that _there is a world outside of the Straight Dope Message Boards._ If it makes you feel any better, I also sometimes forget. Anyhow, in the big wide world, this myth is alive and well. Here’s an [example](http://www.mediaresearch.org/cyberalerts/2002/cyb20021029.asp#6) I just ran across, where Leslie Stahl’s assumption seemed to follow the myth. > [@](#): > > **Republican Ahead of Democrat on Race Astounds Stahl** > > During a 60 Minutes piece on Thurmond’s legacy and the effort by Republican Lindsay Graham and Democrat Alex Sanders to succeed him, when informed of how the Republican Thurmond hired a black person before any [South Carolina] Democrat did, Stahl acted shocked: “No Democrat did it before he did?” When her interviewee confirmed, Stahl’s mouth fell open in astonishment. > [@](#): > > **David B** > Wait! You’re kidding me! The **myth** isn’t true?! Could that be why it’s called a **myth**?! That’s why I called it a myth, and I’m glad you agree. Unfortunately, to many non-Dopers, it’s not a myth at all. > [@](#): > > And so will _some_ Republicans [deny the obvious], and _some_ Libertarians, and _some_ Communists, and _some_ Greens, and … That’s an interesting point. Would Democrats be more apt to deny an instance of bigotry by one of their own than Republicans would? ISTM that on this message board the answer is yes. YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/69 "2002-10-30T04:13:01Z")
> [@](#): > > During a 60 Minutes piece on Thurmond’s legacy and the effort by Republican Lindsay Graham and Democrat Alex Sanders to succeed him, when informed of how the Republican Thurmond hired a black person before any [South Carolina] Democrat did, Stahl acted shocked: “No Democrat did it before he did?” When her interviewee confirmed, Stahl’s mouth fell open in astonishment. Easy answer—When Thurmond was young, there **weren’t** any Democrats. They were called _anti-federalists_ in those days. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/70 "2002-10-30T04:17:57Z")
Of course, back in the day, when Thurmond was young he was a DEMOCRAT, IIRC. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/71 "2002-10-30T04:50:06Z")
> [@](#): > > My point concerns the myth: _Democrats are good people; Republicans are bad people or Democrats are tolerant; Republicans are bigots._ This idea is sometimes put forth to attack opponents of some government program such as affirmative action. mmm-hmmm And, of course, no one on the political Right would ever _demonize_ the Democratic Party with comments such as: [It is increasingly obvious that Democrats do not care about children, in fact, one can see that they despise children and simply use them for political leverage. One could even make the presumption that many Democrats see children as sex objects. If Democrats did care about the children, they would sever funding for this hideous organization.](http://www.coradpress.com/editorial12_26_99.htm) (The organization being the American Psychological Association.) [How Democrats Destroy a Democracy](http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/howD.htm) [Socialist Democrats and liberals throughout our government, more recently led by Bill Clinton and Al Gore, have made it clear that the foundations, the roots that have undergirded this nation are no longer valid](http://www.jeremiahproject.com/TrashingAmerica/) [Democratic Party, as a whole, and their leaders, embrace liberalism completely. I don’t know why you cling to a party that is downright evil. I’ve not seen a Democratic leader who knows right from wrong. If you vote Democrat, you should repent, ask God to forgive you, and tell your neighbors that you’re sorry. The Democrats have aggressively led the effort to destroy the morality and law that was the foundation of this nation. The Democrats celebrate the most despicable perversions known to man. Better than 98% of all Democratic leaders are destructive. The Democratic party is a moral failure. Whatever Jesus Christ stands for, the Democratic Party opposes. They say really stupid things like, “I’m a Democrat but I’m a Satanist.” “I like Jesus but I’m a Satanist.” If you vote Democrat, you are supporting the greatest destructive influence that the American family and the American church has ever seen.](http://www.enyart.com/features/quotes/democrats.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/72 "2002-10-30T05:54:31Z")
december, You can rest comfortably in the knowledge that Graham would likely agree with his opponent’s position regarding someone living with homosexuals. As a rookie representative in S.C., the very first bill he sponsored was H. 3569, banning homosexuals and bisexuals from the National Guard and removing ones currently in service. Now that we’ve established that both parties have idiots in them, you can return to the good ol’ days of Sharon worshipping or Clinton bashing. And as for your statement (bolding mine): > [@](#): > > Comparing someone to a demonized group in terms of some non-essential aspect was a common technique used for red-baiting back in the 1950’s E.g., Democratic politicians were often accused of being “soft on communism” because they agreed with the communists on some individual policy point. > > If you accuse me of hypocricy, that’s fair enough. But, it’s below the belt to accuse me of being a hypocrite “like a White Supremicist.” **That wording improperly links me to White Supremacy.** > > It would be similarly unfair if I were to accuse you of being like Joseph McCarthy in your use of comparisons. Obviously, you are nothing like McCarthy in all essential respects. Is that something like this tactic? > [@](#): > > What puzzles me is this: Why do many posters here routinely take the side of the oppressive bigots against Israel? Are they militarists? Homophobes? Anti-Christian? Do they want women to be oppressed? Do they prefer a corrupt dictatorship, rather than democracy? Do they feel threatened by freedom of speech? ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 11:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/73 "2002-10-30T11:03:52Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \*december, > > You can rest comfortably in the knowledge that Graham would likely agree with his opponent’s position regarding someone living with homosexuals. As a rookie representative in S.C., the very first bill he sponsored was H. 3569, banning homosexuals and bisexuals from the National Guard and removing ones currently in service. Thank you for that information. That’s disgusting. I presume Graham’s rookie year was some time ago. Do you know how long ago it was? Do you know whether Graham’s views have moderated since then? > [@](#): > > Now that we’ve established that both parties have idiots in them, I strongly disgree with your use of the word “idiots.” First of all, there’s nothing stupid about a politician reflecting the bigotry of his constituents. Secondly, bigotry and discrimination are an evil that must be opposed. It’s worse than stupidity. > [@](#): > > And as for your statement…Is that something like this tactic? You didn’t provide a link. IIRC I went on to say that the answer was “No, these people are not bigot.” Furthermore, that quote wasn’t some sort of casual smear. It was the point of the thread – the assertion that many supporters of the Palestinians are in denial about the Palestinians’ failure to meet the supporters’ ethical principles. In particular it goes back to what I wrote above: _bigotry and discrimination are a evil that must be opposed._ **tomndebb** , you get an E for effort. Yes, there are right wing extremists who call Democrats evil, just as left-wing extremists do to Repubcans. If I went to The Nation or Democratic Underground, I could find solme juicy examples. But, the idea of Republicans being evil is main steam. My example above was from _60 Minutes_. A recent web ad that showed the President pushing a lady in a wheelchair over a cliff was run by the Democratic Party, who declined to apologize for it. I well remember Clinton and Carville accusing the Republicans of wanting to starve children, to let the elderly eat dog food, and having no concern about the environment. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/74 "2002-10-30T12:24:53Z")
> [@](#): > > But, the idea of Republicans being evil is main steam. Well, if the shoe fits. . . . 😉 Currently, there is a campaign to amend the Ohio law so as to provide funds for drug rehabilitation for first time offenders. While it is ostensibly non-partisan, the backers are generally Democrats and the opponents are generally Republicans. The current ad of the opponents claims that attempting to rehabilitate first-time drug _users_ will allow violent criminals to become doctors, etc. I would say that 'Pubs simply do a better job of masking their “hate” rhetoric with code words. A search on James Dobson’s web site (and you cannot claim that Dobson is anything but mainstream) will bear this out. He rarely uses the word “Democrat” in his invective, but frequently portrays individual Democrats as being anti-family while contrasting them to purportedly “pro-family” Republicans, so while he never says “Democrats are evil,” his whole message is that “These guys (who happen to be Republican) are good while those (obviously Democrat) guys are bad.” It all boils down to the areas where each group has staked out its territory. The Republicans have chosen to portray themselves as hard-headed realists fighting the foolish fuzzy thinking of Democrats, so they tend to denigrate Democratic intelligence. The Democrats have chosen to portray themselves as the defenders of the poor against the hard-headed (and hard-hearted) “banker types” so they tend to denigrate Republican compassion. These images arose during the Depression and have long since passed into American mythology. Spamming this board with whining complaints that you don’t like the way that the parties have chosen to portray themselves since even before you were born seems to be a waste of time and bandwidth. ---
**Author:** ![SuaSponte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/67e7ee/32.png) [@SuaSponte](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SuaSponte)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 2:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/75 "2002-10-30T14:35:03Z")
> [@](#): > > ## _by december_ quote: > > ## And so will some Republicans [deny the obvious], and some Libertarians, and some Communists, and some Greens, and … > > That’s an interesting point. Would Democrats be more apt to deny an instance of bigotry by one of their own than Republicans would? ISTM that on this message board the answer is yes. YMMV. Where’s your sample pool? ISTM that the only poster on these Boards who start these idiotic threads daring people of particular political affiliations to affirm or deny alleged bigotry is you - and you only start them about alleged Democratic bigotry. God, for an actuary, you appear to know very little about stats. And for those of you listening at home … _ **David B.'s** back and there’s gonna be trouble Hey la, hey la, **David B.'s** back!!_ ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/76 "2002-10-30T15:12:12Z")
**David B** is **SuaSponte** ’s boyfriend? I swear, nobody tells me anything. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![december](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/838e76/32.png) [@december](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/december)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/77 "2002-10-30T15:18:42Z")
Here’s a third instance of the use of homophbia by 2002 Democratic campaigns. Some Democrats are willing to do anything to win, even if it violates the principles they claim to hold. > [@](#): > > **Attacks Build on Lingle’s Gubernatorial Camp** > > Yesterday, Hawaii Reporter talked to a handful of people outside the Republican Party who had direct knowledge of a new secret whispering campaign against Republican Gubernatorial Candidate Linda Lingle. Apparently a woman claiming to be the former lover of Lingle is calling targeted Republicans as a part of a smear campaign against Lingle. Lingle says she is not gay and in fact has been married twice. > > Lingle supporters says smear mongers are hoping to distract voters from the real issues like the fact that the state has hit rock bottom in almost every category -– education, business, social problems, importation of drugs, domestic violence, theft – because of poor political leadership. > > Democrats tried this same smear in 1998 against Lingle when she ran for governor against incumbent Benjamin Cayetano and against some of their own candidates in years prior who weren’t the “chosen” party candidates, including a Democrat candidate for mayor and a Democrat candidate for governor. Lingle addresses this rumor on her Web site, [http://www.LindaLingle.com](http://www.LindaLingle.com), and has discussed it openly at forums. [http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?05b27c8a-2579-402b-a969-598837f46c74](http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?05b27c8a-2579-402b-a969-598837f46c74) As Auric Goldfinger said to James Bond, \*\*\*" Once is Happenstance. Twice is Coincidence. The third time is Enemy Action." \*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![minty\_green](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f6c823/32.png) [@minty\_green](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/minty_green)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/78 "2002-10-30T15:43:19Z")
Oh, well that proves it then. Whatever “it” is, that definitely proves it. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/79 "2002-10-30T15:44:56Z")
> [@](#): > > Some Democrats are willing to do anything to win, even if it violates the principles they claim to hold. So when Republicans engage in these tactics it is in _support_ of principles they hold? ---
**Author:** ![Scylla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a5b964/32.png) [@Scylla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scylla)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2002, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325/80 "2002-10-30T17:04:36Z")
tomndeb: > [@](#): > > So when Republicans engage in these tactics it is in support of principles they hold? Of course not. We only do it to counterbalance the Democratic scourge. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-democratic-gay-bashing/134325.md?page=5)