# More election fallout: High-speed rail is coming to California **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 7, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571 "2008-11-07T01:28:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Airblairxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Airblairxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airblairxxx)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/1 "2008-11-07T01:28:21Z")
Proposition 1A has passed, 52.2% to 47.7%. It authorizes a $10 billion down payment on the first high-speed rail network in the US of A. Total cost will be around $45 billion, and the route will go from Orange County to the Bay Area and Sacramento. Construction is to begin . . . umm . . . sometime. More here: [http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/](http://www.cahighspeedrail.ca.gov/) One objection is here: [More on Prop 1A – Mother Jones](http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2008/10/more_on_prop_1a.html) I’m excited, but of course it won’t open for a decade at the earliest. Anyone else? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/2 "2008-11-07T01:52:53Z")
Did Prop 1A specify where that money was coming from? Because California isn’t exactly flush right now: [Schwarzenegger: $4.7B in tax hikes to end deficit](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/11/06/state/n101718S25.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea) > [@](#): > > Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Thursday proposed billions in spending cuts and a temporary 1.5 percent sales tax increase to close a worsening state budget deficit, a plan that will leave Californians paying more to buy a car, take their children to Disneyland or attend a Dodgers game next season. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/3 "2008-11-07T01:59:40Z")
:mad: [We](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Florida_High_Speed_Rail) were supposed to get it first! Congrats, California. Do it right and set an example for the rest of the country. ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Dave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/46a35a/32.png) [@Great\_Dave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Dave)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/4 "2008-11-07T02:08:13Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > Did Prop 1A specify where that money was coming from? Because California isn’t exactly flush right now: > > [Schwarzenegger: $4.7B in tax hikes to end deficit](http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/11/06/state/n101718S25.DTL&feed=rss.bayarea) It’s a bond issue. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/5 "2008-11-07T02:08:35Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Congrats, California. **Do it right** and set an example for the rest of the country. You don’t know us very well, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Musicat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/musicat/32/20189_2.png) [@Musicat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Musicat)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/6 "2008-11-07T02:19:19Z")
Oh, goody. A high-speed rail line. How 19th Century. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/7 "2008-11-07T02:57:25Z")
> [@Musicat](#): > > Oh, goody. A high-speed rail line. How 19th Century. The world’s first high-speed train was the Japanese Shinkansen which opened in 1964. But the modern age of high-speed rail started when the TGV started operating in France in 1981. We’re talking about trains going well over 250 mph. Hardly 19th Century. Ed ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/8 "2008-11-07T03:13:28Z")
Anyone who thinks the Democrats are the party of fiscal responsibility need only look at California for a counterexample. This is the state that has been near bankruptcy and has to float emergency bond issues to make payrolls, and not they want to spend a billion or two on high speed rail? Let me know when the bankruptcy auction starts. The state capital would make a cool bingo hall. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/9 "2008-11-07T03:31:15Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Anyone who thinks the Democrats are the party of fiscal responsibility need only look at California for a counterexample. Was this ballot initiative a Dem project? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/10 "2008-11-07T03:36:56Z")
[Schwarzenegger Reiterates Support for Prop 1A](http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/10/schwarzenegger_96.html) > [@](#): > > In remarks at the Commonwealth Club in San Francisco last Friday Arnold Schwarzenegger again explained his support for Prop 1A, the $10 billion high speed and passenger rail bond. His speech focused on anti-global warming actions and the economic value of reducing carbon emissions - and why we must continue to do do this even during, especially during, a credit crisis. > > There is far more economic opportunity in fighting global warming than economic risk…We shouldn’t let the budget crisis hold back good things for the future. 20 years from now you can’t look back and say “well they had a budget crisis so we didn’t do it.” Just because we had a problem with the budget does not mean that people should vote “no” on high speed rail. Our rail system in America is so old, we’re driving the same speed as 100 years ago, the same system as 100 years ago. We should modernize, we should do what other countries do…We should start in this state, we should show leadership. > > . . . ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/11 "2008-11-07T03:38:51Z")
> [@Shayna](#): > > [Schwarzenegger Reiterates Support for Prop 1A](http://www.californiaprogressreport.com/2008/10/schwarzenegger_96.html) OK, but are any **Republicans** for it? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/12 "2008-11-07T03:43:34Z")
Oh, and for how it’s being paid for: > [@](#): > > [http://www.masstransitmag.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=7063](http://www.masstransitmag.com/online/article.jsp?siteSection=3&id=7063) > > . . . The total cost is expected to eclipse $40 billion, much of it funded by private investors. . . ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/13 "2008-11-07T03:51:57Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > OK, but are any **Republicans** for it? 😛 Yes, actually. Well, at least according to this guy. . . > [@](#): > > [California High Speed Rail Blog: Orange County Knows Better on Prop 1A](http://cahsr.blogspot.com/2008/09/orange-county-knows-better-on-prop-1a.html) > > . . . > > Most Orange County Republicans wholeheartedly endorse Prop 1A, including Anaheim mayor Curt Pringle, who sits on the CHSRA board. > > . . . ---
**Author:** ![Sam\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Sam\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sam_Stone)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/14 "2008-11-07T05:07:24Z")
Yikes. The fever has spread. Spending is spiraling out of control in the U.S. It seems that the 700 billion bailout was basically a big sign to politicians that said, “Spend whatever you want. No one cares anymore.” The Democrats in the Congress are now proposing a new 300 billion ‘stimulus’ just after the government blew out the budget with the bailout. And Obama’s got more big spending in mind. And California’s going to build a 10 billion dollar rail system at a time when it can barely fund its own current operations and is massively in debt. At some point, this is all going to come crashing down. And it’s not going to be pretty. Doesn’t anyone care about deficits anymore? The U.S. deficit is headed north of a trillion dollars next year. Does that not worry anyone? Where are the Democrats who were complaining that Bush’s $400 billion deficit was going to bankrupt the country? Has that problem gone away? ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/15 "2008-11-07T05:19:11Z")
> [@Sam\_Stone](#): > > Doesn’t anyone care about deficits anymore? The U.S. deficit is headed north of a trillion dollars next year. Does that not worry anyone? Where are the Democrats who were complaining that Bush’s $400 billion deficit was going to bankrupt the country? Has that problem gone away? Yeah! How come Obama hasn’t reduced the deficit yet!? I’ll give him until the middle of January. If he hasn’t done it by then, I give up on him. ---
**Author:** ![thirdname](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/d07c76/32.png) [@thirdname](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdname)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/16 "2008-11-07T06:01:29Z")
Am I the only one who worries about the safety of high-speed rail? It seems like it would be easy for a terrorist, or more likely just some drunk, teenager or psychopath to cause a large accident. All those miles of track, and all someone has to do is park a car or throw a log somewhere in there. How so they prevent that from happening? ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/17 "2008-11-07T06:07:04Z")
> [@riker1384](#): > > Am I the only one who worries about the safety of high-speed rail? It seems like it would be easy for a terrorist, or more likely just some drunk, teenager or psychopath to cause a large accident. All those miles of track, and all someone has to do is park a car or throw a log somewhere in there. How so they prevent that from happening? I’m terrified of trains anyway – not so much because of terrorism or teenage pranks, but even something as simple as a tree limb falling across the tracks or a rock slide covering a portion of it. I’d much rather be in mid-air than on a train going any speed. But I do know that there are (supposedly) safety measures in place for just such occurrences, and I’m sure the designers will incorporate all the most high-tech safety stuff they can. I just won’t be riding it. 🙂 Ah, here we go. . . > [@](#): > > [http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE2DF173BF931A25752C0A961948260](http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B0DE2DF173BF931A25752C0A961948260) > > . . . > > The crucial safety difference between high-speed passenger trains in the United States and those of Japan and France, he said, is that the American trains must share track with slow-moving freight trains, while the Japanese bullet train and the French T.G.V. run on tracks to which slower traffic has no access. > > Bullet trains also stop automatically when any kind of hazard is detected by the railroad system, whether it is a possible collision or derailment, bad weather, an earthquake or some other emergency. The train is stopped even if an engineer fails to notice a signal along the track or inside his cab. The central computer controlling the bullet train even adjusts its speed automati-[cally] > > . . . So far, our dumb asses haven’t figured this out yet with our current system. I should hope they’ll do so with a brand new line! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/18 "2008-11-07T06:19:23Z")
A train wreck is always front-page news because it can kill hundreds, but train wrecks are extremely rare. Fatal auto accidents usually have a low body count and don’t rate more than local-section blurb – partly for that reason but partly because they’re so common. I don’t have to check comparative annual fatality rates to be certain riding a train is **much** safer than driving an automobile. ---
**Author:** ![Shayna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/shayna/32/17976_2.png) [@Shayna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shayna)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/19 "2008-11-07T06:39:18Z")
And having had 3 family members (including a 6 year old) killed in car accidents this past year, I don’t need cites to prove that either. Doesn’t alleviate my fear of trains, none-the-less. Yeah, it’s irrational, what can I say. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [November 7, 2008, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571/20 "2008-11-07T12:17:48Z")
I’ve always found driving to be faster and more convenient than taking the train. Even if the train runs fast, you still lose a lot of time getting to the train station, waiting around, and getting from the destination station to wherever you are going. Also, it’s worth a lot to be able to leave whenever you want and to be able to throw your stuff in the car rather than pack it up carefully. Especially if you are travelling with children. And with a train, you pay for each ticket. So for 3 or 4 people, it’s often cheaper to just drive. Anyway, train stations tend to be magnets for beggars, homeless people, thieves, etc. . . . people I would rather not deal with or have my family have to deal with. Putting that aside for the moment, I would ask the following question: Exactly what problem are we trying to solve by building a high speed rail link between southern and northern California? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-election-fallout-high-speed-rail-is-coming-to-california/471571.md?page=2)