# More fallout from the half-time fall out. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 15, 2004, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319 "2004-07-15T20:45:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![RedFury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ec9cab/32.png) [@RedFury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedFury)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/21 "2004-07-16T00:17:32Z")
Well then, all’s fine as long as they are not messing with gratuitous violence. No siree, Bob, stay the hell aways fom exploding body parts and crack down on them boobies! After all, you can poke your eye out with one of them things. Or go blind just thinking about them. Can’t have that. Not in 2004 anyway. ---
**Author:** ![factorial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ed8c4c/32.png) [@factorial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/factorial)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/22 "2004-07-16T00:49:53Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Yes, at this point, it would have to be auctioned off. And, of course, the fact that some bands were auctioned does show that it is indeed a product. Not all property is tangible. Your mind — your consent — ethically belongs to you, but it is not tangible. The success you describe is not surprising. In general, entities that are structured to respond quickly to public demand, who are in competition for satisfying that demand, and who are free to do so so long as their dealings are peaceful and honest will rise to the occasion, motivated by the profits they can earn. There is no reason to believe that politicians can solve technical problems any better than entrepreneurs. Say goodbye to your cordless phone. It operates on an unlicensed portion of the RF frequency. Say goodbye also to your HAM radio and your 802.11a/b/g wireless networks. So long, garage door openers and keyless entries. Sorry, US military; you don’t have the right to transmit on microwave frequencies with your ship-board RADAR, Microsoft bought those rights last month and traded them to the Chinese Navy in return for a crackdown on piracy. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/23 "2004-07-16T00:57:36Z")
Okay **Llib** , your proposal makes a lot of sense, but does that mean you would have a right to be heard only if you have enough cash? ---
**Author:** ![Briny\_Deep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/briny_deep/32/17188_2.png) [@Briny\_Deep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Briny_Deep)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/24 "2004-07-16T01:16:36Z")
What gets me about this new Puritanism is how it’s directed only at the broadest, surface-level definition of obscenity. Can’t say any bad words, but go wild with the double-entendres. _The Simpsons_ bears this out marvellously – chew through my ball sack, anyone? _Sex and the City_ is now being shown on TBS. The episodes were edited for nudity and language only; apparently the New Puritans are perfectly happy with the sexual situations and ethics of that show, so long as a dreaded boobie isn’t actually shown, or an F-word uttered. Idiots. They’re not even achieving their own goal of Improving The Tone of broadcast TV; they’re just doing the barest surface cleanup. Apparently the little ones will be scarred for life if they see a boobie, but it’s perfectly fine for them to see strangers jumping into bed together. Idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/25 "2004-07-16T01:35:58Z")
I heard on the Bob & Tom radio show this morning that they are no longer allowed to play “Enormous Penis” by DaVinci’s Notebook. I found that very sad. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/26 "2004-07-16T01:36:23Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Come to think of it, we don’t even get to elect the FCC. I’m glad you said that, because it reminds me of something that George Carlin once said: > [@](#): > > The FCC, an appointed body - not elected - not answerable to anyone except the President, decided **on its own** that radio and television were the only two provisions of American Life not covered by the Free Speech Provision to the First Amendment of the Constitution. > > They did this because they got a letter from a minister in Mississippi. > > A Reverend Donald Wildman heard something on the radio he didn’t like. > > Well, Reverend, did anyone ever tell you that there are two knobs on the radio? One turns the radio off, and the other… :smack: …changes the station! > > Can you believe that, Reverend? You can actually change the station! It’s called Freedom of Choice, and it’s one of the principles this country was founded upon. Look it up in the dictionary, Reverend, if you have any left when you’ve finished burning all the books. In other words, **Lib** , I agree with you. God…I feel so…dirty…now. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/27 "2004-07-16T01:39:42Z")
I consider myself very liberal when it comes to personal freedoms and generally somewhat conservative when it comes to economic and foreign policy. I think, however, that this is one area where **Lib** and I are always going to disagree. I believe that some areas and industries are natural monopolies or are better off under public control, such as most utilities, roads, and the like. To me, the EM spectrum is one of those areas that needs to be under governmental control. That said, though, I think moral crusaders of any stripe are a bunch of idiots. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/28 "2004-07-16T01:41:34Z")
BTW, the bolding in the Carlin quote was mine. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/29 "2004-07-16T02:12:52Z")
> [@Superdude](#): > > I’m glad you said that, because it reminds me of something that George Carlin once said… And Carlin is wrong. The FCC didn’t decide to regulate obscenity on it’s own, Congress gave it that power. And the FCC didn’t decide that obscenity wasn’t protected by the first amendment, the Supreme Court did, in FCC v Pacifica, in which Carlin played a major role. ---
**Author:** ![Superdude](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/superdude/32/13450_2.png) [@Superdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Superdude)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/30 "2004-07-16T02:21:51Z")
Both valid points. The only thing to say, in MY defense, is that his quote is SEVERAL years old, and may have been before the SC decision. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/31 "2004-07-16T02:30:55Z")
Well, the SC decision was in 1978, and the courts have said that obscenity isn’t protected speech before then. I don’t know, off the top of my head, when Congress banned obscenity on the airwaves…I’d have to do some research on that. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/32 "2004-07-16T11:12:11Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > So you’d like to give a corporation a government-enforced monopoly on the EM spectrum? You don’t think there will be any problems with that? I haven’t stopped beating my wife because I never started. I don’t advocate that government enforce anything except peace and honesty. Nor do I advocate that any one corporation take control of it. After all, that’s what we have now. Politicians in government and business already work together for their own mutual benefit. It is in the interest of the FCC to levy fines so that it can have revenue. And it is in the interest of broadcast corporations to contribute to campaigns of politicians who make them promises of special legislation and leniency. I didn’t say, “Let government appoint a private overseer of the EM spectrum.” I said, “Eliminate the FCC”. Just drop it. Just let it go. Just disband it and leave entrepreneurs to figure out what to do with the EM spectrum. It’s probably too late for that now since it’s already all mucked up. I cannot, for example, hear WBT from Charlotte, a powerful radio station with interesting talk that must broadcast directionally after a certain time of day so that its signal won’t interfere with the signal from a station in Omaha. But I can’t hear Omaha either because it’s too far away. So, how is this an improvement over the alternatives? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/33 "2004-07-16T11:17:30Z")
> [@Captain Amazing](#): > > And Carlin is wrong. The FCC didn’t decide to regulate obscenity on it’s own, Congress gave it that power. And the FCC didn’t decide that obscenity wasn’t protected by the first amendment, the Supreme Court did, in FCC v Pacifica, in which Carlin played a major role. Well, the Supreme Court isn’t elected either. And what Congress gave the FCC was _discretion_, not power. It is that discretion that Congress is now trying to remove. And this brings us back to the question of why a group of politicians who dine with lobbyists every day is more capable of making these decisions than entrepreneurs who live or die by pleasing the public at large. A Congressman need sound sensible only periodically — when he’s running for office. But an entrepreneur will go broke overnight if he screws up. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/34 "2004-07-16T11:31:09Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Why not eliminate the FCC, and allow parents to decide what they want their children to see and hear? In principle, I agree; but as a parent, I’d like there to be at least some mechanism for anticipating the level of content (as far as is reasonably possible) in advance of it actually being viewed by my children. That’s the function that censorship should occupy, in my opinion; _classification_, not gagging. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/35 "2004-07-16T11:40:09Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > In principle, I agree; but as a parent, I’d like there to be at least some mechanism for anticipating the level of content (as far as is reasonably possible) in advance of it actually being viewed by my children. > > That’s the function that censorship should occupy, in my opinion; _classification_, not gagging. Do you have any reason to believe that competing entrepreneurs would ignore demands for classification? Would it not give a great advantage to one over the other if it offered classifications while the other did not? Remember that your concerns about his sort of thing are the very life-blood of the entrepreneur, whereas the politician is trying to balance your concerns over classification with things like abortion and gun control. Plus, you won’t hear from the politician for another four to six years. Now, some people will make the argument that private companies are notoriously unresponsive, but consider that that is most true of the most heavily regulated ones, like health insurance or pharmaceuticals. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/36 "2004-07-16T13:51:59Z")
> [@Mangetout](#): > > In principle, I agree; but as a parent, I’d like there to be at least some mechanism for anticipating the level of content (as far as is reasonably possible) in advance of it actually being viewed by my children. > > That’s the function that censorship should occupy, in my opinion; _classification_, not gagging. See, I don’t get this. You’re the parent! You get to have the power to control what your kids watch! (If v-chips don’t give you the ability to completely password-lock the TV, they ought to.) Kids shouldn’t be exposed to some things, but it ought to be the parents’ right to decide what’s ok for their kids and what’s not, and adults should be able to see what they like. Am I in favor of hard-core porn on TV? No, but I don’t think any corporation would do that anyway. The disgust from the public would probably police that sort of thing just fine. Meanwhile, I think most of the people who are worried about what kids see are probably active enough parents that it’s not their own kids they’re worried about. They’re busybodies who want to control what _other_ people’s kids see. I know you aren’t in that camp, Mangetout, so why exactly do you want someone else making these decisions? Especially when they make them so completely badly? ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/37 "2004-07-16T15:37:49Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > See, I don’t get this. You’re the parent! You get to have the power to control what your kids watch! (If v-chips don’t give you the ability to completely password-lock the TV, they ought to.) Kids shouldn’t be exposed to some things, but it ought to be the parents’ right to decide what’s ok for their kids and what’s not, and adults should be able to see what they like. Exactly, but I can only exercise that power if I am aware (to whatever reasonable degree of certainty) of the content of programming _in advance of it being watched_; I’m not interested in having a system of complaint and recourse _after_ the damage(real or imaginary is irrelevant) has been done - if I deem something unsuitable for my children to watch, I want to be able to reasonably avoid it, which is why I would like rigorous classification, not restraint. I don’t have confidence in self-regulation schemes, perhaps unreasonably, but it is my impression that, again, they _react_, rather than _prevent_. If I consider that the mere sight of a human breast is irrepairably damaging to the poor vulnerable minds of my children (and I don’t, BTW), then it is no help to me that I will be able to apply consumer pressure _after_ the event; I would want a system whereby I can reliably predict the exposure of breasts and avoid letting my children see them. I think an independent regulator would be able to do this better than an organic structure of competing market forces. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/38 "2004-07-16T16:06:16Z")
That’s fine, too. But there is no reason that the independent regulator need be an appointed bureaucrat, is there? In fact, it would be a good opportunity for alert entrepreneurs to establish consumer affairs businesses that rate TV shows. That way, at least you would have choices of whom you choose to trust. Besides all that, it would be extremely poor business practice to suddenly pop an exposed breast into a show that you have marketed for children. Companies care about profits, and they would likely prefer a one-time appealable fine from the FCC than an outraged buying public who turns them off permanently. And in any case, the FCC was reactive and not preventative with the Janet Jackson thing. ---
**Author:** ![Cisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Cisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cisco)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/39 "2004-07-16T19:34:32Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > See, I don’t get this. You’re the parent! You get to have the power to control what your kids watch! (If v-chips don’t give you the ability to completely password-lock the TV, they ought to.) Kids shouldn’t be exposed to some things, but it ought to be the parents’ right to decide what’s ok for their kids and what’s not, and adults should be able to see what they like. Actually, you’re probably not going to find a bigger anti-censorship proponent than me and I agree with him. I don’t have any probably with the rated “M” and “TV-14”, “TV-Y7”, etc. I’m just waiting for a show rated TV-DVDA :D. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [July 16, 2004, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319/40 "2004-07-16T20:03:37Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > That’s fine, too. But there is no reason that the independent regulator need be an appointed bureaucrat, is there? In fact, it would be a good opportunity for alert entrepreneurs to establish consumer affairs businesses that rate TV shows. That way, at least you would have choices of whom you choose to trust. Besides all that, it would be extremely poor business practice to suddenly pop an exposed breast into a show that you have marketed for children. Companies care about profits, and they would likely prefer a one-time appealable fine from the FCC than an outraged buying public who turns them off permanently. And in any case, the FCC was reactive and not preventative with the Janet Jackson thing. You make some good points and I will have to chew this over som more; my reservations at the moment are along the lines that companies seeking primarily to turn a profit might make different decisions about what is necessary than would an appointed body, whose sole purpose was to _enforce_ an agreed standard (and would not be tempted by glittering, but slightly unacceptable opportunities for profit). As I said though, I’ll have to think some more on this one. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-fallout-from-the-half-time-fall-out/255319.md?page=3)