More frightening than Trump

[elucidator]

I did NOT know that! Because there were too many, way out in the middle of the ocean?

[Boyo_Jim]

My understanding of it was that they made up such a large part of the population that the economy could not have survived them being removed.

[muldoonthief]

@Boyo_Jim

The latter. None who lived in Hawaii were interred anywhere.

I’m assuming most of them have been interred by now.

[Boyo_Jim]

Apparently I was mistaken. Some further searching shows some Japanese Americans in Hawaii were indeed interned, maybe 2-3 thousand out of more than a hundred thousand.

[Hari_Seldon]

@Chefguy

Electing Trump would tell the world that America may be going the way of all empires. Electing a demagogue is the first step. What he tries to do after election will determine how our country goes. If he attempts to declare martial law to enforce his notions of “making our streets safe” and detaining anybody he thinks needs to be deported, the military will either go along with it, which would mean living in fear of our own government; or will refuse, which would in effect represent a coup de etat. That may seem extreme and alarmist, but other countries in history have gone down a similar path. The guy is entirely too chummy with dictators.

Refusing an illegal order is not a coup; it is actually required.

What scares me is that Trump gets, say 260 electoral votes and claims that the election was stolen and asks his supporters to riot. And there is a specific way, he will say, that the election was stolen. The courts allowed 11,000,000 illegal immigrants to vote. This is nonsense, of course, no (well almost no) illegal would want to register to vote, but facts don’t interest Trump.

[marshmallow]

@Boyo_Jim

What would that say about America and Americans?

This question reminded me of two old IOZ quotes.

The fact that we farm out our selection process to The People is not inherently wise, nor good, nor fair. It ensures only that we can blame our neighbors for the bastards that lead us ever toward ruin, rather than blaming the poor issue of some half-impotent monarch, or the College of Cardinals, or the alignment of stars.

Andrew Sullivan wants to know what it means that almost half of America voted out of hillbilly cultural affinity rather than sober assessment of a candidates intellectual ability, emotional maturity, managerial authority, and ability to govern. Isn’t it obvious? It means that democracy is retarded. It should be replaced with the drawing of lots, the spinning of bottles. It’s a feature of the system in which we live, in which any moron is enfranchised.

Sortition might not seem so bad in retrospect.

[Chefguy]

@Hari_Seldon

Refusing an illegal order is not a coup; it is actually required.

What scares me is that Trump gets, say 260 electoral votes and claims that the election was stolen and asks his supporters to riot. And there is a specific way, he will say, that the election was stolen. The courts allowed 11,000,000 illegal immigrants to vote. This is nonsense, of course, no (well almost no) illegal would want to register to vote, but facts don’t interest Trump.

He’s the CINC. Under Article II, Section 2, Clause 1, the Constitution declares: “The President shall be commander in chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the militia of the several states, when called into the actual service of the United States.”

Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 gives Congress the same power: “The Congress shall have Power To …provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions…”

So refusing to follow such an order would be an act of mutiny or treason, and a court martial offense. If the entire Army refused such an order, it would be, in effect, a military coup. Now, it’s only been done once, by Abraham Lincoln and with the consent of Congress.

[XT]

@Boyo_Jim

Let me first repeat – I believe Trump will lose in a historic landslide, and carry both the Senate and House Republicans with him.

But what if he doesn’t? What if he wins? The only thing that frightens me more than President Trump is the idea that there are enough Americans willing to vote to make him President Trump.

What would that say about America and Americans?

It would say nothing good. Though the only way I can see Trump winning is for Hilary to have such a scandal unfold that it completely sinks her. Currently, there is yet another news story about a Republican publicly jumping ship and saying they will vote for Hillary…and I think that trend is accelerating as well.

But, yeah, his winning is a truly frightening thought…much more so, IMHO, than all of the fuss about Bush winning either the first time or the second. And that really says something, when you can look back and say GW’s presidency would be less bad than the thought of a Trump presidency. :eek:

[asahi]

@Hari_Seldon

Refusing an illegal order is not a coup; it is actually required.

What scares me is that Trump gets, say 260 electoral votes and claims that the election was stolen and asks his supporters to riot. And there is a specific way, he will say, that the election was stolen. The courts allowed 11,000,000 illegal immigrants to vote. This is nonsense, of course, no (well almost no) illegal would want to register to vote, but facts don’t interest Trump.

He probably wouldn’t even have to ask them to riot – they’d probably just go ahead and do it or scream all sorts of violent rhetoric until something bad happens. He’s got one of the all-time legendary shit disturbers in Roger Stone who has no compunctions whatsoever about sowing chaos.

[asahi]

@XT

It would say nothing good. Though the only way I can see Trump winning is for Hilary to have such a scandal unfold that it completely sinks her. Currently, there is yet another news story about a Republican publicly jumping ship and saying they will vote for Hillary…and I think that trend is accelerating as well.

But, yeah, his winning is a truly frightening thought…much more so, IMHO, than all of the fuss about Bush winning either the first time or the second. And that really says something, when you can look back and say GW’s presidency would be less bad than the thought of a Trump presidency. :eek:

Trump winning is scary, but he’s a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself. If Hillary wins by, say, 275-263 or even gets up into the 290s, but has to swim against the tide with a republican congress, I doubt things get better. Congressional republicans are honestly just as bad as Trump, and I could see them filibustering, government-shutting, deficit cliff-hanging, and doing God knows what else to push their way to another mid-term win and basically make government even more gridlocked, and the voting public even more cynical. The problem here is voters believing whatever biases they already have and shutting everything else out. I don’t see that changing anytime soon. Not in this area of Alex Jones, Young Turks, Bill O’Reilly and Rachel Maddow. We have a generation who, regardless of political ideology, believe in increasing numbers that our electoral system is rigged and that there’s nothing we can do about it except shout each other down, or worse.

[Gatopescado]

@Boyo_Jim

Apparently I was mistaken. Some further searching shows some Japanese Americans in Hawaii were indeed interned, maybe 2-3 thousand out of more than a hundred thousand.

You obviously weren’t paying attention during the Charleston Heston narrated documentary Midway.

In Sensorround!

[carnivorousplant]

@asahi

If Hillary wins by, say, 275-263 or even gets up into the 290s, but has to swim against the tide with a republican congress, I doubt things get better.

The Republicans in Congress will forget she saved the country from Trump and be just as obstructive as they have been with Obama.

@asahi

We have a generation who, regardless of political ideology, believe in increasing numbers that our electoral system is rigged and that there’s nothing we can do about it except shout each other down, or worse.

Hell, if voting would change any thing, they wouldn’t let us do it.

[ataraxy22]

@Boyo_Jim

The latter. None who lived in Hawaii were interred anywhere.

Yes they were. At Honouliuli. The site is now a National Historical Site

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

[carnivorousplant]

@ataraxy22

Yes they were. At Honouliuli. The site is now a National Historical Site

I am surprised that they were not moved away from a military area, likeRohwer, Arkansas. George Takei, Mister Sulu, was held there with his family.

[TonySinclair]

@Boyo_Jim

What would that say about America and Americans?

It would say that many, if not most, of them are idiots. But anyone of reasonable intelligence should have seen that after they re-elected Bush in 2004.

[Drunky_Smurf]

@Boyo_Jim

What would that say about America and Americans?

That Americans are tired of the political elite rigging the system so they stay in power most of their lives telling us how we should be living while they make millions of dollars while lying to us that they are just like us and understand what we the middle class and poor are going through.

I’m not saying Trump knows what it’s like for anybody other than millionaires and above but domestically the President doesn’t have that much power. Whether it’s four more years of Hillary or Trump not much is going to change. More of the status quo. But that ain’t so bad when you’re white and upper middle class. (Most of my life I’ve been considered poor by the gubbamint and it’s only been the last decade I moved up into middle class.)

The real problem is Congress and the non-politicians behind the scenes pulling strings and making policy like your Dick Cheneys and Donald Rumsfelds. We can’t even vote those clowns out yet there they are behind the scenes for decades.