# More Hall-worthy; Mussina or Schilling? **URL:** \ **Category:** The Game Room\ **Created:** [June 29, 2010, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-hall-worthy-mussina-or-schilling/544926 "2010-06-29T14:16:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 6\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Crawlspace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d6d6ee/32.png) [@Crawlspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crawlspace)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-hall-worthy-mussina-or-schilling/544926/21 "2010-06-30T13:34:45Z")
> [@DCnDC](#): > > Fair enough. But you still voted for Schilling, right? . . . but there’s still no question whatsoever whose career stands out between these two and everyone knows it. I voted for Mussina. In my estimation, Schilling had three brilliant years, three great years, and three very good years interspersed among injury plagued years of mediocrity. Mussina, on the other hand, was consistently very good or great for 12 consecutive seasons in the toughest division in the harder league, with two more great years towards the end of his career. The way the Hall is set up now, I think they will both make it in. But in my opinion, the HOF should be reserved for players who have careers marked by sustained levels of greatness. In that situation, Mussina is the closer of the two. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-hall-worthy-mussina-or-schilling/544926/22 "2010-06-30T13:54:25Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > But Schilling has the edge in the ‘fame’ category because of his heroics and the bloody sock thing. And those things speak volumes to the voters. Well, yeah but if we are going by fame John Rocker is a first ballot pick. I too went Schilling, but not by terribly much. However, I strongly object to the the notion that Mussina was a middling post season pitcher. He may not have been quite as good as Schilling, but he was fantastic in his own right. In 1997, Mussina pitched 29 innings, struck out 41, gave up 4 runs, 11 hits, and 7 walks in 4 post season games. He beat Randy Johnson in the year Johnson went 20-4 with an era of 2.28. Then he beat him again. It doesn’t really get much more clutch than that. The fact that the Orioles didn’t win the WS that year is not an indictment of Mussina, nor is the fact that they never got back to the post season again. He returned as a Yankee, but he wasn’t at his peak anymore, so both regular and post season numbers rose up. Still, a 3.42 lifetime in the post season against the league’s best competition, while throwing in the dh league, is nothing to be ashamed about. ---
**Author:** ![Incensed](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/eb8c5e/32.png) [@Incensed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Incensed)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-hall-worthy-mussina-or-schilling/544926/23 "2010-06-30T20:35:40Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > I dunno how you’re defining “Full season,” but the record for a pitcher who qualified for the ERA title is held by Bret Saberhagen, in 1994 (and Saberhagen pitched enough innings to qualify even had it been a 162-game season.) Let’s bring our collective powers of insight to bear on the year of our lord 1994 and try to recall if there was something about the Major League Baseball season that might exclude it from being called a full season… And for those playing the AL East trump to defend Mussina, you’re forgetting that the East didn’t become the powerhouse that it is until the late 1990’s/early 2000’s, as detailed with winning percentages. ```auto AL East Mussina's Team Mooseless AL East 1991-2000 .504 .508 .503 2001-2008 .529 .598 .510 ``` When the AL East became really nasty, Mussina was pitching for the best team in it, so I beg you to stop giving him credit for facing the Yankees that he pitched for. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2010, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-hall-worthy-mussina-or-schilling/544926/24 "2010-06-30T21:57:17Z")
> [@Incensed](#): > > Let’s bring our collective powers of insight to bear on the year of our lord 1994 and try to recall if there was something about the Major League Baseball season that might exclude it from being called a full season… Which is acknowledged in my post, thanks, but Saberhagen pitched more than enough innings to qualify for an ERA title even had it been a 162-game season. The record for K-BB ratio is held by Bret Saberhagen. ---
**Author:** ![Hawkeyeop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/958977/32.png) [@Hawkeyeop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hawkeyeop)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-hall-worthy-mussina-or-schilling/544926/25 "2010-07-01T13:39:27Z")
> [@RickJay](#): > > Which is acknowledged in my post, thanks, but Saberhagen pitched more than enough innings to qualify for an ERA title even had it been a 162-game season. The record for K-BB ratio is held by Bret Saberhagen. At least until Cliff Lee takes it from him. ---
**Author:** ![Munch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/munch/32/5281_2.png) [@Munch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Munch)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2010, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-hall-worthy-mussina-or-schilling/544926/26 "2010-07-01T17:18:20Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > But looking at them side-by-side, Mussina was clearly the better pitcher overall. “Looking at wins only” is a strange definition of “clearly”. In 300 fewer innings, Schilling beats the living shit out of Mussina in strikeouts (Moose would have to pitch a full season and a half at his top strikeout potential to match him). Moose was a great finesse player - but Schilling was even better at the finesse game while putting up powerhouse numbers. You don’t put up a full point in SO/BB better over 3200 IP by sheer luck. ERA - better. WHIP - better. ERA+ (which is adjusted for both park and league) - better. Looking at post-season (and ignoring Wins of course), Schilling again dominates. Over roughly the same number of innings, it’s another blowout. And by “blowout” I mean “complete game shutout, of which Schilling had two and Moose none”. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-hall-worthy-mussina-or-schilling/544926.md?page=1)