# More Harry Potter Book 7 speculation (spoilers) **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 5, 2006, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487 "2006-05-05T01:47:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/41 "2006-05-06T05:28:04Z")
> [@](#): > > Why does everybody say Harry has Lily’s eyes? This bugs me too, but maybe it has to do with some kind of human connection for the person commenting to Harry and it is a nice thing to say, rather than, “You have your mother’s flabby bum.” **Jess** You have some really good thoughts, clearly house painting is good for your stream of conscienceness Potterology. Can you come and paint my house? Pretty Please 😃 I’m wondering if Voldemort ever had a house elf. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 7:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/42 "2006-05-06T07:58:44Z")
[QUOTE=Shirley Ujest] **Death Eaters** in #4 (movie), during the graveyard reunion scene, Voldy unmasks Crabbe, Goyle, ( a third I forget) before getting to Malfoy. In the movie it looked like he killed Crabbe Goyle and Whomever. Were they killed in the book or was the unmasking all just for dramatic effect? ( I’m almost there now..but you guys all have better memories than me.) [/QUOTE] In the book he just addresses them by name — because they are masked, presumably just naming off the place where they traditionally stood. There was no unmasking, as I recall. Present in the book (I believe) were Lucius Malfoy, Crabbe’s and Goyle’s dads, Macnair (from the Disposal of Magical Creatures Department) and two others named Avery and Nott. Others were not mentioned by name. He also mentions (and here I just checked the text) six missing Death Eaters: three died in Voldemort’s service, one too cowardly to return (he will be dealt with), one whom Voldemort believes has left him forever (he will be killed, of course) and one faithful servant who has already re-entered Voldemort’s service. Those must be veiled references to Karkaroff, or whatever his name was (headmaster of Viktor Krum’s school); and Snape; and Crouch Jr. ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 9:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/43 "2006-05-06T09:37:01Z")
If the book is coming out next summer, then she’s going to have finished it shortly after Christmas. It’s got to be thoroughly editted and proofed, and vast quantities will have to be printed and distributed. As for major character deaths, Hagrid for sure, and Ron’s likely a goner too - sacrificing himself where Wormtail caved. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 10:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/44 "2006-05-06T10:04:19Z")
I think (or rather, I hope) that McGonagall will be like Yoda from one of the prequel trilogies of STAR WARS movies that they once considered making {but NEVER did- that’s an order} turn into a serious ass-kicker in a fight sequence. I’ve always thought there was a lot that didn’t meat the eye about McG. (and I also always somehow got the impression [probably because I put it there] that she and Dumbledore were a long time item). I can’t believe I never caught the Lily/Petunia floral connection (and we know that Rowling is _ALL ABOUT_ significances in the naming). I think Dolores Umbridge is going to reappear and cause some more trouble. I think she’s a Death Eater and a mole (and an unregistered animagus whose familiar is a toad). Remus Lupin and nHorace Slughorn will also figure prominently and perhaps a blood connection between the Riddles and the Potters will be established (perhaps illegitimate). And of course there will be the famous line “Damn it Hogwarts, I wish I knew how to quit you!” ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/45 "2006-05-06T12:08:11Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] Was Moaning Myrtle’s death the murder Riddle used to create his diary Horcrux? They were contemporaneous, after all. [/QUOTE] Moaning Myrtle’s recounting of her death made it pretty clear the giant snake’s stare killed her. Could that “count” as a Voldemort murder for a horcrux? I think Rowling simply goofed on the sword being the only known relic of Griffyndor. My son thinks that the sorting hat is a horcrux - now I can push Rowling’s confirmation that it’s not _in his face!_ _does a ‘get-to-mock-my-son’ dance_ ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/46 "2006-05-06T12:23:57Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I’ve always thought there was a lot that didn’t meat the eye about McG. [/QUOTE] Maggie Smith’s always been very slim. 😃 As for the Lily/Petunia thing, flowers have a long history as names for girls - Rose, Ginger, Ivy… ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/47 "2006-05-06T12:57:34Z")
Has a date for release been set or is it all speculation? ---
**Author:** ![N.Sane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/f19dbf/32.png) [@N.Sane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/N.Sane)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/48 "2006-05-06T15:04:40Z")
There’s an excellent editorial at Mugglenet speculating that the Draught of the Living Death is important, and perhaps Regulus is not really dead. Perhaps one day Harry will look into that mirror, and see a strangely familiar face. My sister pointed me towards that editorial, and I have to say–I **really** like this theory. It’s one that I’ll be disappointed to have it disproved. ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/49 "2006-05-06T15:06:39Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] And of course there will be the famous line “Damn it Hogwarts, I wish I knew how to quit you!” [/QUOTE] Now I’m imagining all the lines from famous movies and the like we could embed (slightly modified) into the text. Everything from _Casablanca_ to _Chinatown_. ---
**Author:** ![Shirley\_Ujest](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shirley\_Ujest](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shirley_Ujest)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/50 "2006-05-06T16:05:23Z")
Just a thought: no mention of Tom Riddle / Voldemort ever having a girl friend/wife, IIRC. I think this either either because it would gum up the plot too much or it is relevant somehow. Not that Voldemort loves the cock. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/51 "2006-05-06T17:28:06Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I can’t believe I never caught the Lily/Petunia floral connection (and we know that Rowling is _ALL ABOUT_ significances in the naming). [/QUOTE] The Patil sisters, Padma and Parvati, are twins; one is named for a goddess and the other for a lotus blossom. The names are merely both Indian and start with P. Fred and George Weasley are twins, but damned if I can think of how their names are mystically related, except that they’re both quite common English names. Their names don’t even start with the same letter. (Molly Weasley must have exhausted her imagination naming Bill, Charlie, and Percy.) Albus Dumbledore has a brother named Aberforth; their names start with the same letter but they are not twins. Regulus and Sirius Black are both named for stars (in different constellations). I wouldn’t expect them to be twins, even though they have related names. Lily and Petunia, twins? I’m thinking not — despite the many times people observe Harry has his mother’s eyes, it quite clearly says on page 4 of “Chamber of Secrets” that Harry looks nothing like any of the Dursleys. ---
**Author:** ![Apos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@Apos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apos)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/52 "2006-05-06T18:01:09Z")
Guys. Snape is good. Dumbledore clearly has some other reason to trust him beyond what the characters speculate at the end of the book: he even pauses, considering telling Harry, but then simply repeats the old mantra. And something is clearly, clearly up with the two of them in the last book, something we are not privy to and still have to learn. Nothing else really explains their argument other than Dumbledore urging Snape to save Draco by killing him, if it comes to it. Snape aside from killing Dumbledore, despite his deep, deep hatred for Harry, basically acts to protect Malfoy and save Harry’s life. Harry is a horcrux. Nothing else explains their connection, their very soulful twinning connection, the thoughts the feelings. Dumbledore is unsure about Nagini, hesitant: a telltale Rowling sign that what is being speculated about is not really the case. All this is certain. There is also no reason to believe that Voldemort began making horcruxes and collecting relics until after leaving the school. Myrtle’s murder seems unlikely. R.A.B. is almost certainly dead now. For all we know, drinking the potion killed him just as it probably would have eventually killed Dumbledore. Other than that: I really did think Percy was Imperioused in Book 5, but subsequently it doesn’t seem as likely. Also, I’m not sure we can really predict what Book 7 will be like thematically. While it probably won’t have the “at-school” year structure, it’s likely that it will take place over the period of the last school year (i.e. it’s not all going to wrap up in a month of action-packed narrative time, but continue for the last year). But other than that: will we really have four separate searches for the remaining horcruxes? Will some be found quickly? All at once? What exactly will be the main plot lines? We can’t be sure. I’d say that some possible issues that would need to be dealt with and could be major elements of the plot: -Harry’s growing conflict with the Ministry as he tries to operate against Voldemort outside of their authority -Who’s leading the Order now and what are the good guys up to? Will Harry, Hermoine and Ron now operate as part of them? Seems weird either way: on one hand they are kids and kind of their own unit, on the other, Harry is really the hero against Voldemort and everyone knows it. ---
**Author:** ![Fretful\_Porpentine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fretful_porpentine/32/2873_2.png) [@Fretful\_Porpentine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fretful_Porpentine)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/53 "2006-05-06T19:39:41Z")
> [@](#): > > R.A.B. is almost certainly dead now. For all we know, drinking the potion killed him just as it probably would have eventually killed Dumbledore. I think he’s definitely dead, but I doubt he ever drank the potion. Here’s my theory on when and how the locket switch took place. Voldemort entrusts Bellatrix with the locket Horcrux and charges her with the task of placing it in the cave. (Cf. Bella’s words in Chapter 2 of HBP: “The Dark Lord has, in the past, entrusted me with his most precious --” at which point she cuts herself off, a sign that Rowling is probably concealing something important here.) On her way to carry out his orders, Bella stops by 12 Grimmauld Place and meets up with her little cousin Regulus, who has already made up his mind to quit the Death Eaters, although she thinks he’s completely loyal. She brags a bit too much about her Very Important Mission; he puts two and two together, pickpockets her, and replaces the real Horcrux with a fake. Bella either doesn’t notice that she has the wrong locket or doesn’t say anything about it because she’s afraid of displeasing the Dark Lord. She places it in the cave, covers it with the potion, and encircles it with Inferi, as per instructions. Reg, meanwhile, hides the locket in his own family’s house, meaning to destroy it later, but Voldemort discovers his disloyalty and has him killed before he gets the chance. This seems to me to be the simplest explanation for how the Horcrux ended up at 12 GP, and it doesn’t require anybody to run the whole boat-bloodletting-potion-Inferi obstacle course before Harry and Dumbledore did. ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/54 "2006-05-06T20:19:12Z")
[QUOTE=Apos] Harry is a horcrux. Nothing else explains their connection, their very soulful twinning connection, the thoughts the feelings. [/quote] That may well be so; but if Harry himself is a Horcrux, then either Voldemort must win, or Harry must die to destroy him. I think it’s more probable that _Harry’s scar_ is the Horcrux, not Harry himself, and that in destroying it, he loses the scar that identifies him so he can become an ordinary non-celebrity wizard without everybody recognizing him everywhere. (He never has wanted the fame.) > [@](#): > > There is also no reason to believe that Voldemort began making horcruxes and collecting relics until after leaving the school. Myrtle’s murder seems unlikely. No reason at all? In “Chamber of Secrets” Riddle confesses: > [@](#): > > “He [Dumbledore] certainly kept an annoyingly close watch on me after Hagrid was expelled… I knew it wouldn’t be safe to open the Chamber again while I was still at school. But I wasn’t going to waste those long years I’d spent searching for it. I decided to leave behind a diary, preserving my sixteen-year-old self in its pages, so that one day, with luck, I would be able to lead another in my footsteps, and finish Salazar Slytherin’s noble work.” A _highly literal_ and strictly chronological reading of that suggests that 1. he found the Chamber 2. Myrtle was killed by the basilisk 3. Hagrid was blamed 4. Dumbledore began to watch Riddle 5. Riddle realizes he won’t have another chance to get at the Chamber before he leaves 6. Riddle makes the Horcrux (requiring a murder) with a diary bought the year the Chamber was opened and impresses his sixteen-year-old self into it Mixed somewhere in there after 5) is a) Riddle leaves Hogwarts; and somewhere in the list before 6) happens is b) Riddle asks Slughorn how Horcruces are made. The trouble is, the strictly literal timeline sucks. If it wasn’t Myrtle but was at school, then Riddle’s story doesn’t make sense: he as much as admits he wouldn’t have got away with anything with Dumbledore watching. If it wasn’t Myrtle, but was after Riddle left school, the date on the diary is wrong. Also, it’s hardly “leaving behind the diary” if Riddle has already left. Last, if murder splits one’s soul, how did Riddle put a shard of his _sixteen-year-old_ soul into the diary by committing a murder at age seventeen or older? If it was Myrtle, then his story is still suspect, at least chronologically, because he had to have decided to make the Horcrux **before** he was suspected by Dumbledore, and perhaps later deciding to enchant the diary to behave in such a way to people to open the Chamber. And, of course, if the whole thing Riddle says is a lie, then there’s not much point in guessing. 🙂 As far as the order of finding the Horcruces, that’s why I favor the Black/Gringotts/Hogwarts/elsewhere idea. The sites are along Harry’s natural route: go somewhere for the summer, go get money out of the bank and buy his school things, go to school, leave the school proper and go have an adventure. ---
**Author:** ![Achren](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/898d66/32.png) [@Achren](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Achren)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/55 "2006-05-06T22:05:10Z")
[QUOTE=Fish] The Patil sisters, Padma and Parvati, are twins; one is named for a goddess and the other for a lotus blossom. The names are merely both Indian and start with P. Fred and George Weasley are twins, but damned if I can think of how their names are mystically related, except that they’re both quite common English names. Their names don’t even start with the same letter. (Molly Weasley must have exhausted her imagination naming Bill, Charlie, and Percy.) Albus Dumbledore has a brother named Aberforth; their names start with the same letter but they are not twins. Regulus and Sirius Black are both named for stars (in different constellations). I wouldn’t expect them to be twins, even though they have related names. Lily and Petunia, twins? I’m thinking not — despite the many times people observe Harry has his mother’s eyes, it quite clearly says on page 4 of “Chamber of Secrets” that Harry looks nothing like any of the Dursleys. [/QUOTE] Alphabetical? Kinda? I just saw this post and though, hey, we’ve got: **A** rthur **B** ill **C** harlie (no D or E) **F** red **G** eorge **G** inny (no H-L) **M** olly (no N or O) **P** ercy (no Q) **R** on Or, you know…not. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Diceman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/22d042/32.png) [@Diceman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diceman)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/56 "2006-05-06T23:38:49Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro] I think Dolores Umbridge is going to reappear and cause some more trouble. I think she’s a Death Eater and a mole (and an unregistered animagus whose familiar is a toad). [/QUOTE] Umbridge is _NOT_ a Death Eater. Remember what Dumbledore said about how the world isn’t divided into Good People and Death Eaters? Dolores Umbridge is the living embodiment of this fact. She is a nasty, mean, horrible person, but she is not one of the bad guys. Having her be a secret Death Eater would fundamentally undermine her character. Besides, she got gang-raped by the centaurs. Isn’t that punishment enough? 😃 > [@bup](#): > > Moaning Myrtle’s recounting of her death made it pretty clear the giant snake’s stare killed her. Could that “count” as a Voldemort murder for a horcrux? I don’t see why not. Is there anything that indicates that the murder must be carried out in a specific manner? > [@Apos](#): > > Other than that: I really did think Percy was Imperioused in Book 5, but subsequently it doesn’t seem as likely. Rowling has specifically stated (on her website) that Percy is not Imperioused. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/57 "2006-05-06T23:46:29Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] Besides, she got gang-raped by the centaurs. Isn’t that punishment enough? 😃 [/QUOTE] I thought it was gross and disgusting punishment. Those poor centaurs. ---
**Author:** ![ouryL](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ouryl/32/6067_2.png) [@ouryL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ouryL)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/58 "2006-05-06T23:55:29Z")
[QUOTE=Kolak of Twilo] I’m always ready for speculation about B7 but why is right now that moment? We seem to have 18 months at least left on our countdown. Of course Harry, Ron & Hermione will return to school. The books are numbered Year 1, Year 2, etc. How it will be done I have NO idea. JKR has said the last word of the 7th book will be “scar.” No idea what that means, but it is intriguing. My predictions: House elves will prove crucial Snape is not evil RAB is Sirius’ brother Regulas Black [pardon my sp. I don’t have the books handy] Horcruxes will turn out to be rather mundane. C’mon, if you were going to hide a piece of your soul would you choose something everyday that nobody will notice or something odd that will seem odd to anyone seeing it? [/QUOTE] The Horcrux is Harry’s scar? ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2006, 11:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/59 "2006-05-06T23:56:58Z")
[QUOTE=Achren] Alphabetical? Kinda? I just saw this post and though, hey, we’ve got: **A** rthur **B** ill **C** harlie (no D or E) **F** red **G** eorge **G** inny (no H-L) **M** olly (no N or O) **P** ercy (no Q) **R** on Or, you know…not. 🙂 [/QUOTE] Were Molly’s brother’s Fabian and Gideon twins? I’ve wondered because they’re always mentioned together and the F/G Fred/George of her own twins. (Her father was named Ignatius and her mother was Lucrectia Black which add an I and an L.) ---
**Author:** ![Rysto](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ecccb3/32.png) [@Rysto](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rysto)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2006, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487/60 "2006-05-07T00:32:32Z")
[QUOTE=Diceman] Umbridge is _NOT_ a Death Eater. Remember what Dumbledore said about how the world isn’t divided into Good People and Death Eaters? Dolores Umbridge is the living embodiment of this fact. She is a nasty, mean, horrible person, but she is not one of the bad guys. Having her be a secret Death Eater would fundamentally undermine her character. Besides, she got gang-raped by the centaurs. Isn’t that punishment enough? 😃 [/QUOTE] JKR mentioned in an interview just after the release of HBP that Umbridge will be back. Her exact words were “Yeah, it’s too much fun to torture her not to have another little bit more before I finish.” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-harry-potter-book-7-speculation-spoilers/355487.md?page=4)