# More homophobia from Bush: gay people are "sinners."
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [July 30, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960 "2003-07-30T18:46:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/1 "2003-07-30T18:46:18Z")
In another [attack](http://asia.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=topNews&storyID=3188650) on gay rights today. Bush expressed support for federal legislation which would prohibit same-sex marriage.
> [@](#):
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> At the same time, he stressed the importance of respect for individuals, that the nation not be polarized on the issue of homosexuality but “welcome those with good hearts, to be a welcoming country.”
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> “On the other hand, that does not mean that somebody like me needs to compromise on an issue such as marriage,” he said. “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman and I believe we ought to codify that one way or the other and we have lawyers looking at the best way to do that.”
He also offered this backhanded lip service to tolerance of GLBT people.
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> President Bush on Wednesday rejected same sex marriage but declined to pass moral judgment on homosexuality, saying he was “mindful that we’re all sinners.”
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> Paraphrasing the Bible at a news conference in the White House Rose Garden, Bush said, “I caution those who may try to take the speck out of the neighbor’s eye when they’ve got a log in their own.”
Who said anything about “sinners,” prick? You were asked about homosexuals.
The fact the he hears the word “homosexual” and thinks “sinners” basically proves that he is the barely restrained fundie bigot that I’ve always suspected he was.
The proposed legislation is obviously an abortion unto itself but I wish the little shit would at least pretend to follow the “compassionate” conservatism that he once proclaimed himself to represent.
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### Author:  [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/2 "2003-07-30T18:53:00Z")
You don’t thnk he really loves the sinner, hates the sin? In his mind, that may _be_ compassionate.
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### Author:  [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/3 "2003-07-30T19:02:27Z")
Well, I’m hardly surprised—the guy _is_ a very religious, right-wing, born-again Christian. The part that gave _me_ the willies was, “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman and I believe we ought to codify that one way or the other and we have lawyers looking at the best way to do that.”
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### Author:  [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/4 "2003-07-30T19:11:13Z")
As Coldfire would say, in other news, a bear was spotted shitting in the woods and, this just in, the Pope is Catholic.
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### Author:  [@BrightNShiny](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrightNShiny)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/5 "2003-07-30T19:11:38Z")
Bah. Why don’t people like this just admit they want to establish a theocracy in this country?
It’s funny how these “religious” people are so quick to talk about morality and sin when it comes to gay issues, and how they are always eager to propose legislation.
But start talking about insider trading or accounting fraud, then they fight tooth and nail against any type of legislation. How come nobody ever talks about how the Enron big-wigs are sinners?
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### Author:  [@Trion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trion)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/6 "2003-07-30T19:12:16Z")
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> \*\*“I believe marriage is between a man and a woman and I believe we ought to codify that one way or the other and we have lawyers looking at the best way to do that.” \*\*
Oh great. My tax dollars at work. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/7 "2003-07-30T19:17:26Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Diogenes the Cynic \*
> \*\*
> Who said anything about “sinners,” prick? You were asked about homosexuals.
> \*\*
Bzzz. [wrong](http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2003/07/20030730-1.html). Maybe you should actually read the transcipt of the press conference before getting your panties in too much of a wad… :rolleyes:
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> Q Thank you, sir. Mr. President, **many of your supporters believe that homosexuality is immoral.** They believe that it’s been given too much acceptance in policy terms and culturally. As someone who’s spoken out in strongly moral terms, what’s your view on homosexuality?
He was asked about the **morality** of homosexuality. He responded to that question.
(I’m not commenting on his policy decision, just your narrowly focused whine about the sinner remark)
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### Author:  [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/8 "2003-07-30T19:17:52Z")
It could be worse, **Dio** (yes, I have to resort to that argument. I have realized the utter futility in reminding whoever reads the email I sent to Bush that we aren’t all his brand of christian). He didn’t compare being gay to having any communicable disease or relations with wildlife. He didn’t directly say that gay people caused 9/11.
I’m surprised his lawyers are still looking for a way to do this:
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> “I believe marriage is between a man and a woman and I believe we ought to codify that one way or the other and we have lawyers looking at the best way to do that.”
Simply remove the first amendment and you’re set, George. That is, remove it, rather than merely _ignoring_ it.
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### Author:  [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/9 "2003-07-30T19:21:47Z")
I’m curious as to whether he dumbed down the bible to ‘speck’ and ‘log’ from those trickier intimalectual words of ‘mote’ and ‘beam’ in order to get his brain around the concept or in order to convey it to everyman. Somehow I suspect the former.
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### Author:  [@Homebrew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Homebrew)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/10 "2003-07-30T19:27:14Z")
Okay, **beagledave** , the difference is … ?
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### Author:  [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/11 "2003-07-30T19:27:59Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Dissonance \*
> \*\*I’m curious as to whether he dumbed down the bible to ‘speck’ and ‘log’ from those trickier intimalectual words of ‘mote’ and ‘beam’ in order to get his brain around the concept or in order to convey it to everyman. Somehow I suspect the former. \*\*
Or…gee Wally, he could be using a [different](http://www.gospelcom.net/yob/view.php?date=2003-05-24) (and quite common…it took me 2 seconds to come up with dozens of Googled examples) translation.
How fucking pathetic
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/12 "2003-07-30T19:31:06Z")
**beagledave** , the point still stands, i think. Seems pretty damned clear that Bush was directly implying that homosexuals are sinners.
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### Author:  [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/13 "2003-07-30T19:31:37Z")
There are plenty of valid things to say against W without having to resort to the words chosen for him…
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### Author:  [@beagledave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beagledave)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/14 "2003-07-30T19:32:11Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Homebrew \*
> \*\*Okay, **beagledave** , the difference is … ? \*\*
Ummm huh?
DtC claims that Dubya was **not** asked about the morality/sinful nature of homosexualty…therefore his **mention** of morality/sinfulness in his answer was a backhanded label of homosexuality.
The **reality** (if it matters, I guess) is that Dubya **was** specifically asked about the morality of homosexuality (in reference to many of his supporters who consider it immoral)…so his response that mentioned morality/sinfulness **did** answer the question that DtC claimed was never asked.
Got it?
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### Author:  [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/15 "2003-07-30T19:33:56Z")
**andros** , the sticking point IMO (I am not defending W … I am not defending W … I am not defending W…) is whether or not W thinks that being gay makes you a doubly-bad sinner or whatever you want to call it. Bush refrained from saying that specifically today, IMO (and I’m open to correction). But … well, it’s clear from his other words what he thinks of the validity of homosexual couples, for one. For _one_.
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### Author:  [@andros](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/andros)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/16 "2003-07-30T19:46:06Z")
Well sure, Pun . . . I don’t think Bush would ever say that he thinks homosexuality is a _worse_ sin than any other. Few evangelicals ever make a point of quantifying sin (outright).
But I still think Mr. Bush did, however obliquely, state that he considers homosexuality to be sinful.
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### Author:  [@anewthought](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anewthought)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/17 "2003-07-30T19:46:13Z")
> [@](#):
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> gay people are "sinners
This statement is 100% correct from the bible itself. Please explain how a factual statement from the bible can be translated to ‘homophobe’. Stating a fact about something is not the same thing as being scared of homosexuals.
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### Author:  [@matt\_mcl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/matt_mcl)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/18 "2003-07-30T19:49:55Z")
Permit me once again to extend a cordial invitation.
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### Author:  [@iampunha](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iampunha)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/19 "2003-07-30T19:53:07Z")
**anewthought** , please show the capacity to entertain one by explaining why any statement from the Bible is required here to the effect that gay people are or are not sinners. This isn’t about Bush misquoting the Bible, this is about whether or not there was something between the lines of “President Bush on Wednesday rejected same sex marriage but declined to pass moral judgment on homosexuality, saying he was “mindful that we’re all sinners.””
**andros** , I think Bush espoused his beliefs on that long ago, sadly. These days one can but hope he knows enough to at least not say “them gays can all go to cuba for all I care” or something like that.
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### Author:  [@Angel\_of\_the\_Lord](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Angel_of_the_Lord)
#### Post date: [July 30, 2003, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-homophobia-from-bush-gay-people-are-sinners/191960/20 "2003-07-30T19:56:28Z")
You know what? I could give a fuck about what G.W. Bush thinks about homosexuals. He could consider them the spawn of Satan for all I care. It’s his personal opinion. He can believe whatever he wants; he has that right, because he’s a human being. But, goddamn it, he should not be using his beliefs in this manner to dictate the way this country is run.
Not everyone worships at his stone idol. Not everyone who calls their god by the same name believes as he does. And the fact that he is president does not make his personal beliefs any more correct than anyone else’s in this country. He’s dictating the behavior of consenting adults in a way that fucking _promotes_ promiscuity and screws over innocent people.
So what if he believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. A couple generations ago, everyone believed that marriage should only be between a white man and a white woman or a black man and a black woman, but not between a white man and a black woman or a black man and a white woman. Looking back on that now, we wince at how backwards we once were, and pat ourselves on the back about how far we’ve come. We’ve only taken baby steps. We’re still looking over into our neighbors’ yards and deigning to dictate their behavior.
It doesn’t matter what he thinks; it matters what he _does_. And his actions today–the announcement that he’s essentially taking all possible legal measures to ensure that a large group of the population be denied certain rights–speak louder than any bile he could have spewed or any slurs he could have used. Who cares if he thinks they’re sinners? He thinks everyone’s a sinner. But he’s taking special action to make sure that a group of “sinners” that isn’t hurting anyone gets screwed over. He’s an asshole. Plain and simple. And no amount of quibbling over his words is going to change my opinion, there.
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