# More important to get the henchmen than Trump **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [January 6, 2022, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332 "2022-01-06T16:08:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/41 "2022-01-09T05:42:25Z")
Being rich, he’ll never see a day in prison so I’m fine with fining his wealth away because of tax and fraud convictions. After all, he’s been grifting his entire adult life – the political bullshit is the cherry on top for him. I’d be happy thinking of him living in a single-wide in DeSoto county, Florida because he can’t afford West Palm Beach anymore. He’s fit right in; it’s gone for the Pub Presidential candidate every year since 1976 and more people voted for him in 2020 than 2016. ---
**Author:** ![Temporary\_Name](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8c91f0/32.png) [@Temporary\_Name](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Temporary_Name)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 5:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/42 "2022-01-09T05:52:46Z")
It seems to me the case in Georgia should be a slam dunk. There is an audio tape of him asking an election official to find votes – he was even stupid enough to list the number of “found votes” he needed. It would be really nice if the inner circle would politely admit he KNEW that he lost fair and square and had planned to try use his influence to change that, but even without that kind of cooperation from co-conspirators it should be quite easy to make that case. He cannot deny he said those things, they are indisputable. He CAN try to convince dumb jurors that he meant something else but no sane and rational person could honestly believe him. They would just have to weed out genuine partisan hacks who would vote to acquit no matter what. He would be convicted, it would be a state thing so it would not be his successor or his government which convicted him and it would be a nice bit of business to start a whole list of “stealing the election” charges he could face. Once it is established he set out to overturn the election (even in part- Georgia) it will make other cases just part of the pattern he is known to follow. And his henchmen and henchwomen can be convicted too. The perfect icing on the perfect cake as far as I am concerned. I would love for the January Sixth Committee to nail his ass by showing intent and knowledge it was wrong and illegal and his participation up past his elbows to his shoulders and beyond- but can they? Doesn’t Georgia have an easier case? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/43 "2022-01-09T06:03:58Z")
" More important to get the henchmen than Trump" Trying to stop a snake by cutting off the _tail_? ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/44 "2022-01-09T14:18:37Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Trying to stop a snake by cutting off the _tail_ ? Well put Czarcasm. ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/45 "2022-01-09T14:46:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > " More important to get the henchmen than Trump" > Trying to stop a snake by cutting off the _tail_ ? Snake can’t move forward without a tail. Make it clear that the bastards will suffer for their boss’s transgressions. Dan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 2:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/46 "2022-01-09T14:50:04Z")
> [@Dandan](#): > > Snake can’t move forward without a tail. Make it clear that the bastards will suffer for their boss’s transgressions. Except in this case the “tail” grows back fast and easy. When it comes to Republican wanna-bes, there is an almost unexhaustive supply of people ready to take the place of any henchmen you may take out of the picture. ---
**Author:** ![chappachula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/d2c977/32.png) [@chappachula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chappachula)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/47 "2022-01-09T15:01:41Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Trying to stop a snake by cutting off the _tail_ ? A better analogy would be: " trying to stop a scorpion by cutting off the tail." A scorpion uses its head to see and aim at an enemy—but It’s the stinger in the tail that kills you. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/48 "2022-01-09T15:03:51Z")
> [@aruvqan](#): > > Nail him on taxes, financial fraud, that is what did Capone in. Let history repeat itself: send him to Club Fed until the syphillis takes over, then ship him off to Florida. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/49 "2022-01-09T15:08:56Z")
As in the snake analogy, cutting off this particular “stinger” doesn’t harm the scorpion because it is easily replaced. ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/50 "2022-01-09T15:09:49Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > > [@Dandan](#): > > > > Snake can’t move forward without a tail. Make it clear that the bastards will suffer for their boss’s transgressions. > > Except in this case the “tail” grows back fast and easy. When it comes to Republican wanna-bes, there is an almost unexhaustive supply of people ready to take the place of any henchmen you may take out of the picture. OK, got it! Inexhaustible supply of monsters, so we should just put away the swords and let 'em flourish. Get a grip on the fact that the Wicked Witch needs his flying monkeys. Dan ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/51 "2022-01-09T15:11:59Z")
> [@Dandan](#): > > Get a grip on the fact that the Wicked Witch needs his flying monkeys. Get a grip on the fact that this particular Son Of A Witch can come up with flying monkeys much faster than you can eventually put them down. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/52 "2022-01-09T15:13:08Z")
> [@Dandan](#): > > OK, got it! Inexhaustible supply of monsters, so we should just put away the swords and let 'em flourish. No, I am saying that Trump should be the main target. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/53 "2022-01-09T15:24:12Z")
The OP (me) didn’t say getting Trump was unimportant, just less important in the long run than nailing the henchmen. Less satisfying too, I know, but with Bannon and Meadows and Giuliani behind bars, he has no legacy or claims of leadership to make. ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/54 "2022-01-09T15:28:52Z")
Nowhere have I suggested that the monkeys should be the only target, but rather that the next trumpling will need his own gibbons, and they should be discouraged. Indeed, if the smartest ones are discouraged, the stupider ones might introduce a useful fail factor. I apologize if I gave the impression that the CFSG was less important - if he can be fried that might discourage some of the smarter aspirants, although I haven’t seen many of these. Yet. Dan ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/55 "2022-01-09T16:07:18Z")
> [@Dandan](#): > > the stupider ones might introduce a useful fail factor. Can you imagine stupider than Meadows and Bannon and Ghouliani? Trump and the Three Stooges might be entertaining. ---
**Author:** ![Dandan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a87d85/32.png) [@Dandan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dandan)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/56 "2022-01-09T16:34:08Z")
No prob imagining stupider; lifelong SF fan here, suspending disbelief is my game. Dan ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/57 "2022-01-09T18:24:12Z")
> [@Temporary\_Name](#): > > It seems to me the case in Georgia should be a slam dunk. There is an audio tape of him asking an election official to find votes – he was even stupid enough to list the number of “found votes” he needed. It would be really nice if the inner circle would politely admit he KNEW that he lost fair and square and had planned to try use his influence to change that, but even without that kind of cooperation from co-conspirators it should be quite easy to make that case. > > He cannot deny he said those things, they are indisputable. He CAN try to convince dumb jurors that he meant something else but no sane and rational person could honestly believe him. They would just have to weed out genuine partisan hacks who would vote to acquit no matter what. I don’t want to help his lawyers, so I’ll just say that I think the prosecution will have a hard time unless they can find some evidence that Trump knew that he was bullshitting. Once he’s gone to trial, the statute of limitations has passed, etc. he’ll probably start giving interviews saying that he knew all along that it was just BS to try and get things turned around - you do what you need to do to win - but, based on his history, I expect that he’s played it straight from top to bottom on feigning true belief in “the great steal” and you won’t be able to prove otherwise, no matter how many phone calls you listen to and no matter how many recordings of his meetings you read through. At best, you might prove to the jury that he’s a crank. But it’s hard to convict someone who’s just not aware of what he’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Roger\_That](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roger_that/32/8505_2.png) [@Roger\_That](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roger_That)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/58 "2022-01-09T18:43:51Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > the prosecution will have a hard time unless they can find some evidence that Trump knew that he was bullshitting They used to get mobsters, who would speak on the phone in MUCH more elaborate code than Trump used that day, all the time. Juries may be skeptical, but they ain’t dummies either. The prosecutors understand that they need to convince the jury that his code can be easily and clearly broken–once they accomplish that, it becomes very hard for a jury to return a Not Guilty verdict. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/59 "2022-01-09T21:23:00Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > Once he’s gone to trial, the statute of limitations has passed, etc. he’ll probably start giving interviews saying that he knew all along that it was just BS to try and get things turned around - you do what you need to do to win - but, based on his history, I expect that he’s played it straight from top to bottom on feigning true belief in “the great steal” and you won’t be able to prove otherwise, no matter how many phone calls you listen to and no matter how many recordings of his meetings you read through. Since when is “I didn’t know that was illegal” a defense? ---
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [January 9, 2022, 11:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332/60 "2022-01-09T23:03:05Z")
Arguing which of these is more important seems to depend on some little-spoken assumptions that we should clarify: In particular, _what do we want to accomplish_ ? If the object is to derive maximal schadenfreude (a perfectly honorable objective, IMNSHO), then it’s gotta be Trump Hisself jailed for the next 500 years, and his crooked family (Jr., Eric, and probably Ivanka) even unto the 7th generation. Getting all his henchmen will offer plenty of schadenfreude as well, no mistake, but it’s gotta be Trump for the Max. If the object is to protect the nation from history repeating itself, then I lean toward (1) enacting the necessary laws, at federal and state levels, to repair and enhance all the already-rickety “guard rails” that Trump has demolished. That will be the hardest task, but the most important. We’ve already seen extensive lists of the many guard rails that have been blown over, and extensive suggestions for new laws to fix them. (2) I think getting the henchmen is more important than getting Trump Hisself, though not to the exclusion of Trump Hisself. If Trump goes down, sure there will be future demagogues, a few of which will be strong enough and competent enough to repeat, or even out-do, Trump. (Likely candidates, to date, seem to be DeSantis, Carlson, maybe Abbott.) But if we can neutralize the henchmen _and install enough laws, with adequate teeth, to put the fear into future henchmen_, I think that will be a bigger deterrent than neutralizing future Big Cheeses themselves. As for the prospect of future Trump-alikes like DeSantis _et al_, let’s remember the famous words of Karl Marx, commonly paraphrased as: > [@Karl Marx as commonly translated and paraphrased](#): > > History repeats itself, first as tragedy, then as farce. > [@Wikipedia: The Eighteenth Brumaire of Louis Napoleon](#): > > ## First as tragedy, then as farce > > This book is the source of one of Marx’s most quoted and misquoted[[6]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eighteenth_Brumaire_of_Louis_Bonaparte#cite_note-6) statements, that historical entities appear two times, “the first as tragedy, then as farce” ( _das eine Mal als Tragödie, das andere Mal als Farce_ ), referring respectively to Napoleon I and to his nephew Louis Napoleon ([Napoleon III](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III)): > > > [Hegel](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel) remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts and personages appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as [tragedy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy), the second time as [farce](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farce). [Caussidière](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Caussidi%C3%A8re) for [Danton](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_Danton), [Louis Blanc](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Blanc) for [Robespierre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maximilien_Robespierre), [the Montagne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mountain_(1849)) of 1848 to 1851 for [the Montagne](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mountain) of 1793 to 1795, [the nephew](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon_III) for [the uncle](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoleon). And the same caricature occurs in the circumstances of the second edition of the Eighteenth Brumaire.[[7]](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Eighteenth_Brumaire_of_Louis_Bonaparte#cite_note-7) ETA: Bonus points if you know what a _Brumaire_ is, and why there were 18 of them. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-important-to-get-the-henchmen-than-trump/957332.md?page=4)