# More language peeves **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [April 11, 2005, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814 "2005-04-11T17:24:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Imasquare](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Imasquare](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Imasquare)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/41 "2005-04-12T05:46:09Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > After all, we don’t insist on pronouncing any other foreign words as they actually are pronounced in the language they came from. Actually (and bizarrely?) a lot of people who aren’t French pronounce French words in an attempt at a French accent (eg ambience). I’m pretty sure that the French don’t pronounce English words in an English accent. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/42 "2005-04-12T05:57:36Z")
> [@Imasquare](#): > > Actually (and bizarrely?) a lot of people who aren’t French pronounce French words in an attempt at a French accent (eg ambience). I’m pretty sure that the French don’t pronounce English words in an English accent. I think what we’ve got is a right old pot-pourri. As far as I know, many froggies pronounce le weekend, for example, pretty much borrowing the English pronunciation. My all time favourite has to be the cogniscenti who pronounce Munich as Munichhhhh (rather than Munchen - with umlaut) for authenticity! Reminds of the joke about the British football fan who thought that Borussia Moenchengladbach versus Borussia Dortmund was a derby match. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/43 "2005-04-12T05:57:53Z")
**Excalibre** > [@](#): > > Uh, except that only a very few ultra-pedants actually pronounce it that way. This isn’t a word like “February” or “nuclear” where the supposedly-correct pronunciation actually has a significant number of adherents. Pronuncing “forte” like “fort” is something that people only do because someone along the line told them it was correct, and thus they decided to show off their erudition when subsequent opportunities arose. I see it more as a question of accuracy and never pronounce words or phrases correctly to show off. I didn’t fly to work today, I drove. Just telling like it is. Most people pronounce “mischievous” as “mis-chee-vee-us.” So what, that doesn’t make it right. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/44 "2005-04-12T05:58:10Z")
“No love was lost between them” actually means they love each other a lot - think about it! All their love for each other was still there, so none had been lost. It comes from the original _Bab_es in the Woods\* folk tale and describes how much the two siblings love each other. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 5:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/45 "2005-04-12T05:59:38Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > Most people pronounce “mischievous” as “mis-chee-vee-us.” So what, that doesn’t make it right. So far as I know, this pronunciation is the accepted Irish one. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/46 "2005-04-12T06:03:48Z")
**Imasquare** Actually (and bizarrely?) a lot of people who aren’t French pronounce French words in an attempt at a French accent (eg ambience). I’m pretty sure that the French don’t pronounce English words in an English accent. What do you call someone who can speak three languages? Trilingual. What do you call someone who can only speak one language? American. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/47 "2005-04-12T06:07:17Z")
**roger thornhill** > [@](#): > > So far as I know, this pronunciation is the accepted Irish one. That may very well be. I’ll bet many Americans would say the same thing. But they’d be wrong. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/48 "2005-04-12T06:15:01Z")
“Wrong”? Come now. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/49 "2005-04-12T06:17:18Z")
Okay, if “wrong” has such a negative connotation, let’s just say “inaccurate.” ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/50 "2005-04-12T06:21:04Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > It’s an interesting sociolinguistic fact (more or less) that in British English both the upper classes and the lower classes “drop the ‘g’”. Thus, three of the pursuits of the toffs, as pronounced by them, are huntin’, shootin’ and fishin’ (yes - they’d make pretty good rednecks - or **liberals** , come to that\ I think you mean “conservatives.” [sub]bolding is mine[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/51 "2005-04-12T06:24:41Z")
**"near miss"** If you nearly miss someone, you have hit them. \*\*“I hope my application passes the mustard.” \*\* passes muster And here’s one I was guilty of as a kid: **Chester drawers** instead of chest of drawers. I hear it all the time. ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/52 "2005-04-12T06:30:01Z")
> [@Large Marge](#): > > I think you mean “conservatives.” > > [sub]bolding is mine[/sub] No, **Marge** , I mean liberals - American style. ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/53 "2005-04-12T06:37:48Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > **Excalibre** > > I see it more as a question of accuracy and never pronounce words or phrases correctly to show off. I didn’t fly to work today, I drove. Just telling like it is. > Most people pronounce “mischievous” as “mis-chee-vee-us.” So what, that doesn’t make it right. So what _does_ make it right? You claim that you’re not trying to show off, but when you mispronounce “forte” in order to give it a French pronunciation, your purpose is clear. “Forte” as an Italian word, used in music, has no doubt influenced the pronunciation of “forte” as in strength. But the fact is that the English word “forte”, as in strength, is pronounced with two syllables. I say “the fact” because the only criterion that can be used to determine a word’s pronunciation is how the speakers of the language pronounce it. You can try to advance other criteria, but I promise you that I will manage to demonstrate why each one is flawed. The pronunciation you use is really only used by those attempting the sort of excruciatingly correct grammar that comes not from any actual facts about the nature of the language but only from the careful cultivation of varietal differences done in order to emphasize economic status or educational achievement. You may claim that you’re not trying to “show off”, but you would pronounce the word as native English speakers pronounce it otherwise. > [@jimpatro](#): > > Okay, if “wrong” has such a negative connotation, let’s just say “inaccurate.” Hmm. I’ve had these discussions before on here. And in fact, I inevitably win. Nonetheless, I find them dull. > **[It's nucular, Lisa: NUCULAR](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=301996)** > > Anyone else notice that once Bush secured re-election, his conformance to Standard American English suddenly improved? All of a sudden it seems it’s okay to refer to technology relating to the center of an atom by the term he no doubt grew up with:... That’s an example in which I explained why there are two correct pronunciations of the word “nuclear” and bravely fought off all attackers. Much of the reasoning will be the same, and it seems a waste for me to repeat it over and over. Take a look through my posts, if you like. ---
**Author:** ![Large\_Marge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/50afbb/32.png) [@Large\_Marge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Large_Marge)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/54 "2005-04-12T06:45:51Z")
> [@roger thornhill](#): > > No, **Marge** , I mean liberals - American style. The liberals are not the rednecks in the States. The conservatives are the ones with the shotguns, the big belt buckles, and the “Vote Bush” bumper stickers on their enormous pickup trucks. The liberals are the vegetarian tree-huggers who want to save the planet. [sub]Yeah, I’m stereotyping[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/55 "2005-04-12T06:52:52Z")
**Excalibre** > [@](#): > > You may claim that you’re not trying to “show off”, but you would pronounce the word as native English speakers pronounce it otherwise. No. First of all I’m not a conformist. Second, there are other people(native English speakers) who pronounce "mischievous’ for example as “mis-chi-vus.” It’s not just me. There is no “i” or “e” or “y” or otherwise any letter that would produce an “ee” sound between the “v” and “o”. ---
**Author:** ![jimpatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@jimpatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimpatro)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 7:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/56 "2005-04-12T07:04:08Z")
**Excalibre** , will you please break down the word “ain’t” into the two words which form the contraction? ---
**Author:** ![Donovan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ea666f/32.png) [@Donovan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Donovan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 7:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/57 "2005-04-12T07:39:13Z")
> [@ivylass](#): > > **irregardless**. > > A very dear friend of mine used to use this word all the damn time. Even when I told him it was _regardless_, not _irregardless_, he still used it. I once chipped a tooth listening to a voice mail in which a coworker (customer? I forget…) used that word about three times in five sentences… ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/58 "2005-04-12T08:38:39Z")
> [@jimpatro](#): > > **Excalibre** > > No. First of all I’m not a conformist. Second, there are other people(native English speakers) who pronounce "mischievous’ for example as “mis-chi-vus.” It’s not just me. There is no “i” or “e” or “y” or otherwise any letter that would produce an “ee” sound between the “v” and “o”. You seem to be under the misapprehension that somehow writing is sort of the “primary” or core form of language, when in actuality writing developed as a mechanism to record speech. Much as we pronounce many words in ways totally at odds with their spelling (Wednesday, anyone?) the insertion of an epenthetic vowel into “mischievous” is not surprising at all; comparison to many other words (“previous”, “devious”, etc.) demonstrates that “vious” is far more common a word ending than “vous” - which is an explanation for why people inserted that extra vowel. But it doesn’t really matter in the end, since no one pronounces English words as they are spelled, and if you decided to start doing so, you’d become incomprehensible. There’s nothing “special” about spellings - when they poorly reflect a word’s pronunciation, it should be regarded as a sign that our writing system is flawed, not our pronunciations. After all, it’s not as though God handed Moses a copy of the OED to be used as a pronunciation key until Judgment Day. Our spellings are simply the conventions we use to capture speech on paper. > [@jimpatro](#): > > **Excalibre** , will you please break down the word “ain’t” into the two words which form the contraction? “Am not”. Isn’t this common knowledge? ---
**Author:** ![roger\_thornhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/d9b06d/32.png) [@roger\_thornhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/roger_thornhill)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/59 "2005-04-12T09:58:50Z")
> [@Large Marge](#): > > The liberals are not the rednecks in the States. The conservatives are the ones with the shotguns, the big belt buckles, and the “Vote Bush” bumper stickers on their enormous pickup trucks. > > The liberals are the vegetarian tree-huggers who want to save the planet. Marge, I’m deliberately subverting the accepted order of things. It is one of my great and abiding beliefs (adumbrated ad nauseam here by not only me but other Brits) that US liberals are about as pink as Genghis Khan or Maggie Thatcher. They loves 'em their guns especially. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2005, 1:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814/60 "2005-04-12T13:07:34Z")
> [@MizQuirk](#): > > I’d think you care for her twice as much (200% more?) as someone who says I couldn’t care less about what she thinks. And I’d also think you’re sarcastic, though I’m not sure of your definition of a mofo. Hmm–I’m really not sure I believe you. I think you’d know just what I meant, and I think you’d know just what I meant if I said, “I couldn’t care less about Madonna.” If you pretended that you didn’t understand in order to score points against me or something like that–well, I couldn’t care less if people want to make their own comprehension of language difficult, so have at it! Me, I think idioms are great, and attempts to psychoanalyze idioms, cross-examine them, catch them in a contradiction before the jury, falsify them, are all the results of the sort of superstitious nonsense propagated by one too many insecure English teachers. Daniel [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-language-peeves/298814.md?page=4)