# More legal chess moves in a game of chess than there are adams in the known universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 27, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604 "2005-09-27T01:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GrahamWellington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/54ee81/32.png) [@GrahamWellington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrahamWellington)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/1 "2005-09-27T01:48:42Z")
According to the website How Things Work, it’s true. They did the math. It seems impossible to me. Any comments? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/2 "2005-09-27T01:50:28Z")
There can’t be more than a few million Adams in the world, so it’s probably right. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/3 "2005-09-27T01:52:18Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > According to the website How Things Work, it’s true. They did the math. > > It seems impossible to me. Any comments? Are they including the dead adams too? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![NinetyWt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/cc9497/32.png) [@NinetyWt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NinetyWt)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/4 "2005-09-27T01:52:58Z")
Well, he _did_ say Universe. Does that count “Adam” in alien-speak? ---
**Author:** ![Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/cab0a1/32.png) [@Man\_With\_a\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Man_With_a_Cat)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/5 "2005-09-27T01:53:27Z")
My cousin Adam can’t even play chess. He’s kind of stupid though, so you really shouldn’t go by him. ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 1:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/6 "2005-09-27T01:57:24Z")
Don Adams died today. Can we subtract a legal chess move? ---
**Author:** ![GrahamWellington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/54ee81/32.png) [@GrahamWellington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GrahamWellington)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/7 "2005-09-27T02:03:40Z")
> [@Mr. Blue Sky](#): > > There can’t be more than a few million Adams in the world, so it’s probably right. 😃 Oh boy – you got me there! Brother. Well, if it’s any excuse, I’m on my last day of vacation and I’ve TOTALLY over-dosed on sleep, causing my brain to turn into mush! Gosh, I can’t believe I posted a great post; only to have screwed up. How embarrassing!!! ---
**Author:** ![Emily\_Litella](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emily_litella/32/3370_2.png) [@Emily\_Litella](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Emily_Litella)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/8 "2005-09-27T02:04:20Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > According to the website How Things Work, it’s true. They did the math. > > It seems impossible to me. Any comments? Suppose you have two kings left and they chase each other infinitly around the board. But the kings and the board are made of adams. Therefore there will always be more adams than chess moves. Does that sound logical? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/9 "2005-09-27T02:16:53Z")
> [@GrahamWellington](#): > > Oh boy – you got me there! Brother. > > Well, if it’s any excuse, I’m on my last day of vacation and I’ve TOTALLY over-dosed on sleep, causing my brain to turn into mush! > > Gosh, I can’t believe I posted a great post; only to have screwed up. How embarrassing!!! Just ribbin’ the new guy. No harm, no foul. Seems possible, though. That’s why I don’t play chess. I was never good at strategery. ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/10 "2005-09-27T02:19:06Z")
It says 10^120 chess moves and only 10^75 adams in the universe? I don’t know where they got the universe number. ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/11 "2005-09-27T02:21:15Z")
Yep, according to “[How stuff works](http://computer.howstuffworks.com/chess1.htm),” there are 10^120 moves possible, which it is estimated there are 10^75 atoms in the universe. Quite a difference. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/12 "2005-09-27T02:38:18Z")
> [@Duke of Rat](#): > > It says 10^120 chess moves and only 10^75 adams in the universe? I don’t know where they got the universe number. I think they counted them. There was an adam counting guy at our office a while ago he was using an adamizer. ---
**Author:** ![Scribble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scribble/32/3317_2.png) [@Scribble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scribble)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/13 "2005-09-27T04:03:28Z")
> [@don't ask](#): > > I think they counted them. There was an adam counting guy at our office a while ago he was using an adamizer. And I bet he was adamant about getting that number right. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/14 "2005-09-27T04:14:01Z")
He probably had to adam up a few times, just to make sure. ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/15 "2005-09-27T04:21:45Z")
Well, let’s count 'em and see. Adam West, that’s one. Adam Ant makes two, and Adam Smith a third. Umm, Adam Clayton - and I’ve lost my place. Time to start over… ---
**Author:** ![Electronic\_Chaos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Electronic\_Chaos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Electronic_Chaos)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/16 "2005-09-27T04:38:07Z")
So what’s the over/under of this thread making Threadspotting on Wed? ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/17 "2005-09-27T04:44:54Z")
> [@SeeNoReason](#): > > Suppose you have two kings left and they chase each other infinitly around the board. But the kings and the board are made of adams. Therefore there will always be more adams than chess moves. Does that sound logical? Do they really count that? In real life, I think that’s a draw. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/18 "2005-09-27T07:27:23Z")
I wonder if we’re witnessing the birth of a new SDMB catchphrase… ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/19 "2005-09-27T07:48:01Z")
We’re not talking the maximum legal length of a chess game here, people. That’s quite small, only about 6000-odd moves ( **glee** may be along to give the exact figure some time). When it gets down to bare king versus bare king, that’s a mandatory draw after 50 moves a side. It’s also a mandatory draw after 50 moves a side in which nothing has been taken and no pawn has moved. Exceptions exist for a few endings in which a winning process is known to exist and take more than 50 moves. The big number quoted above represents the number of possible different sequences of moves. For instance, in the initial position White has 16 possible pawn moves (eight pawns each able to move either one square or two) and four Knight moves, for a total of 20 options; Black similarly has 20 replies, so there are 400 distinct move-sequences before you even get to White’s second move. I’m not sure how the math goes after that. A lot depends on how crowded the board is. On an otherwise empty board with a King and Queen on each side, none on the edge of the board or on the same rank, file or diagonal, you’d have about 35 possible moves each side. ---
**Author:** ![mrklutz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ebca7d/32.png) [@mrklutz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mrklutz)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/20 "2005-09-27T14:14:22Z")
I really shouldn’t open threads like this before I’ve finished my coffee. Now I have visions of chess pieces dancing gleefully on the chess board. “Don’t drink, don’t smoke, what do you do?” [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604.md?page=2)