# More legal chess moves in a game of chess than there are adams in the known universe? **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [September 27, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604 "2005-09-27T01:48:42Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/21 "2005-09-27T14:33:24Z")
> [@mrklutz](#): > > I really shouldn’t open threads like this before I’ve finished my coffee. Now I have visions of chess pieces dancing gleefully on the chess board. “Don’t drink, don’t smoke, what do you do?” Must be something inside. ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/22 "2005-09-27T15:21:58Z")
Does that include Cecil Adams? ---
**Author:** ![Biotop](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/biotop/32/321_2.png) [@Biotop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Biotop)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/23 "2005-09-27T15:37:48Z")
I believe it was Spencer Johnson who pointed out that there are more legal cheese movements than there are edams in the known universe. ---
**Author:** ![borschevsky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/97f17d/32.png) [@borschevsky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/borschevsky)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/24 "2005-09-27T15:57:29Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > We’re not talking the maximum legal length of a chess game here, people. That’s quite small, only about 6000-odd moves ( **glee** may be along to give the exact figure some time). When it gets down to bare king versus bare king, that’s a mandatory draw after 50 moves a side. It’s also a mandatory draw after 50 moves a side in which nothing has been taken and no pawn has moved. Exceptions exist for a few endings in which a winning process is known to exist and take more than 50 moves. > > The big number quoted above represents the number of possible different sequences of moves. For instance, in the initial position White has 16 possible pawn moves (eight pawns each able to move either one square or two) and four Knight moves, for a total of 20 options; Black similarly has 20 replies, so there are 400 distinct move-sequences before you even get to White’s second move. I’m not sure how the math goes after that. A lot depends on how crowded the board is. On an otherwise empty board with a King and Queen on each side, none on the edge of the board or on the same rank, file or diagonal, you’d have about 35 possible moves each side. Actually I think bare kings is a draw immediately, without needing the 50-move rule. With only kings there’s no sequence of moves possible to produce checkmate, so the game is drawn. Calculating the exact number of possible games becomes computationally impossible only a few moves deep, but just to do a back of the envelope calculation we could use an average of 20 possible moves in each position with games lasting 50 moves for each player. That’d give 20[sup]100[/sup] possible games, which is in the ballpark of the 10[sup]120[/sup] figure mentioned earlier. ---
**Author:** ![Uncommon\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Uncommon\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uncommon_Sense)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/25 "2005-09-27T16:00:54Z")
E·dam; n. A mild, yellow Dutch cheese, pressed into balls and usually covered with red wax. Spencer Johnson; An author who wrote “Who Moved My Cheese”, not referring to bowel movements brought on by cheese, rather the phrase ‘cheese’ as a goal in life. Good one **Biotop** , how long did it take you to think that one up? :dubious: 😃 ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/26 "2005-09-27T19:55:49Z")
> [@SeeNoReason](#): > > Are they including the dead adams too? 😛 What about the MacAdams? But i think we’ve been down this road before. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/27 "2005-09-27T20:09:36Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What about the MacAdams? > > But i think we’ve been down this road before. 🙂 I’d suggest macadamias, but that would be nuts. ---
**Author:** ![Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a587f6/32.png) [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/28 "2005-09-27T20:21:58Z")
All right, let’s settle this scientifically, once and for all: John Adams, 1 f4 e6 2 g4 Qh4++ John Quincy Adams, 1 f4 e6 2 a3 a6 3 g4 Qh4++ Sam Adams, 1 f4 e6 2 a4 a5 3 g4 Qh4++ Cecil Adams, 1 f4 e6 2 a4 a6 3 g4 Qh4++ Don Adams, 1 f4 e6 2 a3 a5 3 g4 Qh4++ . . . Oh, the heck with it. This will take forever! ☹ ---
**Author:** ![The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b5ac83/32.png) [@The\_Mad\_Hermit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Mad_Hermit)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/29 "2005-09-27T20:36:30Z")
Do Addams count? Inquiring Pugsleys want to know. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/30 "2005-09-27T21:32:28Z")
> [@Uncommon Sense](#): > > E·dam; > n. > A mild, yellow Dutch cheese, pressed into balls and usually covered with red wax. I don’t care how “mild” it is, you Dutch had damn well better keep your wax and cheese away from my balls. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/31 "2005-09-27T21:48:43Z")
In the interests of scientific investigation, I took the liberty of interviewing a few atoms on the subject: Me: “And you, what’s your name?” “My name is Adam.” Me: “You too? You’re the 6.02x10[sup]23[/sup]rd one! There must be, like, a mol of you guys.” Adam: “We’re _all_ named Adam. Didn’t someone tell you before?” Me: “Well, that clears a few things up. There really **are** more legal chess moves than there are Adams in the known universe.” ---
**Author:** ![SkipMagic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skipmagic/32/20706_2.png) [@SkipMagic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SkipMagic)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2005, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/32 "2005-09-27T21:54:12Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > What about the MacAdams? I don’t think the ‘No true Scotsman’ fallacy applies here. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 8:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/33 "2005-09-28T08:05:04Z")
> [@borschevsky](#): > > Actually I think bare kings is a draw immediately, without needing the 50-move rule. With only kings there’s no sequence of moves possible to produce checkmate, so the game is drawn. :smack: Of course, and king and one minor piece versus bare king is a statutory draw too (as mate is impossible even with cooperation by the weaker king). I’ve only known that for 35 years. :rolleyes: @ self. Serious games of over 100 moves a side are exceedingly rare, although over 50 isn’t that unusual. ---
**Author:** ![Mangetout](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mangetout/32/19_2.png) [@Mangetout](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangetout)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/34 "2005-09-28T08:17:15Z")
Ok, so that’s Adam, but what about Steve? Did God really not make Steve? ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/35 "2005-09-28T08:29:43Z")
What’s the collective noun for a bunch of Adams anyway? A west of Adams? A cecil of Adams? Enquiring minds want to know. ---
**Author:** ![BraheSilver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ecccb3/32.png) [@BraheSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BraheSilver)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/36 "2005-09-28T08:54:43Z")
Tell you what; I’ll start with two Adamas at the other end of the galaxy who are heading towards Earth. You guys count the terrestrial adams and we’ll meet somewhere in the middle. Okay? See you at the super black hole! ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/37 "2005-09-28T09:15:43Z")
Listen to **BraheSilver**! He nose! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Scissorjack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c67d28/32.png) [@Scissorjack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scissorjack)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/38 "2005-09-28T10:16:36Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > Listen to **BraheSilver**! He nose! 😉 Yes, but how does he smell? ---
**Author:** ![AndyPolley](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/54ee81/32.png) [@AndyPolley](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AndyPolley)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/39 "2005-09-28T13:13:18Z")
This is quite the Adamic powered thread. Could we come up with an Adam-based chess set, like those snappy [Civil War Chess sets.](http://www.chesscentral.com/sets-pieces-chess/civil-war-chess-sets.htm) Uncle Cecil could be a king. Maybe Adam Ant can be a queen? ---
**Author:** ![Tomcat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Tomcat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tomcat)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2005, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604/40 "2005-09-28T13:28:32Z")
> [@Case Sensitive](#): > > Yes, but how does he smell? Really bad, he definitely needs a shower. -Tcat [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-legal-chess-moves-in-a-game-of-chess-than-there-are-adams-in-the-known-universe/323604.md?page=3)