# More Lies and Bullshit **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 9, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315 "2004-07-09T17:04:22Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/1 "2004-07-09T17:04:22Z")
The Bush military history controversy has [reared its ugly little head again](http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/politics/politics-bush-records.html). For those who don’t want to sign into the NY Times, here is a partial quote: > [@](#): > > HOUSTON, July 8 - Military records that could help establish President Bush’s whereabouts during his disputed service in the Texas Air National Guard more than 30 years ago have been inadvertently destroyed, according to the Pentagon. > > It said the payroll records of “numerous service members,” including former First Lt. Bush, had been ruined in 1996 and 1997 by the Defense Finance and Accounting Service during a project to salvage deteriorating microfilm. No back-up paper copies could be found, it added in notices dated June 25. > > The destroyed records cover three months of a period in 1972 and 1973 when Mr. Bush’s claims of service in Alabama are in question. What an amazing coincidence! :rolleyes: How can anyone still believe that there are not blatant coverups, lies and corruption in this administration going back to years before the election? Yeah, I know, “prove the conspiracy”. It would seem there is an abundant shitload of circumstantial evidence pointing to all manner of mischief with these people, and only a fool would believe there is not some substance. ---
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/2 "2004-07-09T17:26:02Z")
I don’t think you need to register for [Rueters](http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=SP4IWXDQJRZU0CRBAEKSFEY?type=topNews&storyID=5632144) ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/3 "2004-07-09T17:26:40Z")
heh heh…yeah. He’s a dirty little genius ain’t he? And he’s got us by our collective balls with this electronic voting scam…to say more would be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/4 "2004-07-09T17:30:24Z")
Um, although there has indisputably been some hanky-panky with Bush’s records, the accidental destruction of these records actually sounds quite plausible to me, given the time and circumstances. Thirty-year-old microfilm isn’t exactly the most stable medium, which is why there was an effort by archives to salvage what could be salvaged. You would _expect_ losses. (Here’s a [registration-free link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3880141.stm), by the way.) ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/5 "2004-07-09T17:34:11Z")
I don’t even know what to think about this shit anymore. I think people that support this man should be shunned from society. ---
**Author:** ![jk1245](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/49beb7/32.png) [@jk1245](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jk1245)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/6 "2004-07-09T17:44:47Z")
OK, the detryoed microfilm excuse is at least plausible, as Larry Mudd states. Still, why is this just coming up now?? People have been after Bush’s records for some time and never any mention of missing records with an official explanation of when and how they were destroyed? This stinks to high heaven. ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/7 "2004-07-09T17:45:53Z")
> [@World Eater](#): > > I don’t even know what to think about this shit anymore. I think people that support this man should be shunned from society. How does that work? Society shuns half of itself? Society splits into two groups that mutually shun eachother and each clame to be the one true society? Is this some kind of Zen meditation game? ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/8 "2004-07-09T17:52:08Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > How does that work? Society shuns half of itself? Society splits into two groups that mutually shun eachother and each clame to be the one true society? Is this some kind of Zen meditation game? Dunno yet, I’m still working on the details. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![UrbanChic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/9dc877/32.png) [@UrbanChic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UrbanChic)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/9 "2004-07-09T17:52:16Z")
> [@jk1245](#): > > OK, the detryoed microfilm excuse is at least plausible, as Larry Mudd states. Still, why is this just coming up now?? It’s a vast left-wing conspiracy. Duh! ---
**Author:** ![asterion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/4da419/32.png) [@asterion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asterion)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/10 "2004-07-09T17:53:25Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > How does that work? Society shuns half of itself? Society splits into two groups that mutually shun eachother and each clame to be the one true society? Is this some kind of Zen meditation game? I’ve got no problems with it, as long as the Provider is still John Elway. ---
**Author:** ![SPOOFE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@SPOOFE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SPOOFE)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/11 "2004-07-09T18:02:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Still, why is this just coming up now?? Because we’re dealing with an entity that has to deal with ten million times more records and paperwork in a week than the average Joe will have to deal with in his entire lifetime. Remember how much trouble you had, say, finding the receipt for your DVD player so’s you could get that nifty rebate? I say “Whatever”. People that focus on this have their priorities screwed up… AND SHOULD BE SHUNNED FROM SOCIETY!!! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mojo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Mojo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mojo)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/12 "2004-07-09T18:02:16Z")
Do you people truly think that everyone at the Pentagon is so enamored with Bush that they’re now engaging in a large scale coverup over 30 year-old National Guard records on microfilm that, up until a year ago, nobody gave a rats ass about? Do you think that everyone who works for the government is part of “the administration” and is in on it? Why is it coming up now? Because the government is a large, slow-moving, incompetent beauracracy. I’m surprised that no one’s claimed that Tom Ridge issued the [Orange Alert](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=265426&page=2) to cover _this_ up. On preview: I now see that someone has. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![lissener](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lissener/32/6139_2.png) [@lissener](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lissener)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/13 "2004-07-09T18:03:26Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > How does that work? Society shuns half of itself? Society splits into two groups that mutually shun eachother and each clame to be the one true society? Is this some kind of Zen meditation game? No, I gotta better plan: one half of society could EAT the other half! That way the rightwing would finally serve some purpose, and us lefties would finally have something to appreciate them for. Plus, after eating them, it would cool to have Republican poop in my toilet. ---
**Author:** ![Evil\_Captor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/f17d59/32.png) [@Evil\_Captor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evil_Captor)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/14 "2004-07-09T18:15:25Z")
> [@Mojo](#): > > Do you people truly think that everyone at the Pentagon is so enamored with Bush that they’re now engaging in a large scale coverup over 30 year-old National Guard records on microfilm that, up until a year ago, nobody gave a rats ass about? Do you think that everyone who works for the government is part of “the administration” and is in on it? Where do you get this “everyone at the Pentagon” and “everyone who works for the government” stuff? All it would take is a couple of the classic Republican [little elves](http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2000/03/04/willey/index.html?sid=659902) like the ones who secretly worked to impeach Clinton. Or do you feel like denying that nasty little bit of history? ---
**Author:** ![black\_rabbit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f19dbf/32.png) [@black\_rabbit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/black_rabbit)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/15 "2004-07-09T18:22:37Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Um, although there has indisputably been some hanky-panky with Bush’s records, the accidental destruction of these records actually sounds quite plausible to me, given the time and circumstances. Thirty-year-old microfilm isn’t exactly the most stable medium, which is why there was an effort by archives to salvage what could be salvaged. You would _expect_ losses. > > (Here’s a [registration-free link](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3880141.stm), by the way.) \ Weeeellll… I dunno. I’ve worked with microfilm older than thirty years, that’s been manhandled by an indifferent public for decades, even, and it’s held up pretty well. I can maybe see a problem with mold if the films were kept in a damp basement or something, but as physical mediums go, microfilm is reasonably indestructable. \ I don’t usually get that paranoid, but the Pentagon’s excuse certainly gave me pause. You’d have to be pretty stupid and/or negligent to irrevocably destroy microfilm, _especially_ in the middle of a project to salvage it. Not that I want anybody to think that I’m underestimating the stupidity or negligence of DFAS or anything… ---
**Author:** ![Kid\_A\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed8c4c/32.png) [@Kid\_A\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kid_A_1)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/16 "2004-07-09T18:27:19Z")
> [@asterion](#): > > I’ve got no problems with it, as long as the Provider is still John Elway. > [@Butters](#): > > Hey, uh, what are you doin’?? Ha-I’m ready to give myself to Mr. Elway. Carousel, carousel, carousel… ---
**Author:** ![World\_Eater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/f04885/32.png) [@World\_Eater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/World_Eater)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/17 "2004-07-09T18:32:52Z")
> [@SPOOFE](#): > > I say “Whatever”. People that focus on this have their priorities screwed up… AND SHOULD BE SHUNNED FROM SOCIETY!!! 😃 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Exgineer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a88e4f/32.png) [@Exgineer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exgineer)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/18 "2004-07-09T18:34:42Z")
I don’t understand why it’s such a big deal. All you really need is his discharge. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/19 "2004-07-09T18:36:46Z")
\ > [@Metacom](#): > > How does that work? Society shuns half of itself? Society splits into two groups that mutually shun eachother and each clame to be the one true society? Is this some kind of Zen meditation game? Too late - I already shunned you. ---
**Author:** ![blowero](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/41988e/32.png) [@blowero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/blowero)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2004, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315/20 "2004-07-09T18:44:49Z")
> [@Exgineer](#): > > I don’t understand why it’s such a big deal. All you really need is his discharge. Do we have to send him into the men’s room with a cup for that?😛 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-lies-and-bullshit/254315.md?page=2)