# More love from the Jesus fan club **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 15, 2005, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189 "2005-02-15T14:13:56Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![NurseCarmen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/5daacb/32.png) [@NurseCarmen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NurseCarmen)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/21 "2005-02-15T17:43:12Z")
Oh dear. I’ve been reading these boards too much. The thought occurred to me… What if the christian Jesus prefered his body of christ _pan fried!?!?!_ ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/22 "2005-02-15T23:33:35Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > …but the workaround the Constitution is the least of the problems. […] > What other bigotry and hate mongering is being passed down to kids with this superstitious nonsense? I think it’s absurd to say that violation of the separation of church and state is the least of the problems here. It’s the whole problem. It’s a case of people’s being entrusted with the rational education of children and being unable to do so without bringing their personal prejudices, beliefs, morals and axe-grinding into it. It’s how you get Bible lessons incorporated into publically-funded science classes, it’s how you get racial slurs about Jews’ being immoral incorporated into religious lessons, and it’s how you get dismissive comments about religion being “superstitious nonsense” being brought into discussions about the place of religion in public education. (Answer: there is **no** place for religion in public education, outside of theology classes – not to make value judgements about religion _of any kind_, whether it’s supporting it by incorporating it into the curriculum, or dismissing it.) ---
**Author:** ![Jack\_Batty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jack_batty/32/3201_2.png) [@Jack\_Batty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jack_Batty)\ **Post date:** [February 15, 2005, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/23 "2005-02-15T23:52:19Z")
Damn, I wish I had been a little more politically aware in my sheltered little town when I was a kid. When I was in fourth or fifth grade – public school mind you – circa 1975, third period was Catechism. Yes, Catholic Catechism. Not with a shuttle to the church – I’m talking, “Ok, children, put away your Weekly Readers and take out your Catechism books” … right in the class room. You see a solid 95% of my little northern Maine town was Catholic. There were two families that I knew of that were Protestant: mine and one other (although you’d be hard pressed to even call us that). _– As a side note, you should have seen the scandal that hit town when the Shapiro’s moved in. I’m not even half-joking –_ When I told my parents what third period was all about, they had me excused from it, so this other kid and I got to sit out in the hallway and stare at the walls while all the good little Catholics got their publicly funded religious training. I also could have had a case on my hands for later in my senior year. I included as a goal on my yearbook form: “I seek the Holy Grail.” The faculty editor deleted it without even asking me to replace it or anything – my yearbook entry just went out with no goal. Fairly prophetic now that I think about it. And speaking of taking time off, as someone mentioned, our school year started three weeks early, and then we got three weeks off every fall for potato harvest. A clear cut support of child slave labor – fucking forty cents a barrel! I worked my ass to the bone and by the end of three weeks I made enough money to buy a fucking pair of boots! Fucking Catholics. ---
**Author:** ![Inigo\_Montoya](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inigo_montoya/32/124_2.png) [@Inigo\_Montoya](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inigo_Montoya)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/24 "2005-02-16T00:19:58Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > - Graham Nash lyric This one’s been making the rounds today! I love what my kids are getting in school. They get the Bible stories told as stories. They get Norse mythology told as stories. They get Greek & roman myths told as stories…Celtic, Chinese, Native 'Merkin, etc… all told as stories. Along with the stories they get instruction about the cultures that give us the stories: “What did relevance did Icharus have to the Greeks? And how does it apply to us now?” In the end, they get conversant & familiar with the whole cross-cultural schmear. perfect solution? Hell no if you want a Bible-based education, but pretty damned good for the rest of us heathens who just want our kids to not have to scratch their asses when they hear words like “Ramadan” and think of a bad Japanese movie. There will be time for in depth religious study when they’re in college and of an age to make an informed decision about what they can believe (OK, decision=/=faith, I know, I know…). I’ve always scratched my head at how God snuck into the public school system, but I could handle it better if he shared with the others. **gobear** , why do you live where you live? I have a feeling you’d be more appreciated in, um, more temperate climes? ---
**Author:** ![Good\_Egg](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/96bed5/32.png) [@Good\_Egg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Good_Egg)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/25 "2005-02-16T00:29:30Z")
What a concept! Jesus, a christian? A christian is supposedly one who worships Christ. He was Jewish, but I think the teacher meant He was God, and God is no denomination. ;j ---
**Author:** ![Ca3799](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9f8e36/32.png) [@Ca3799](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ca3799)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/26 "2005-02-16T00:32:07Z")
I found it interesting that the school board voted 5 to 1 to keep the religious instruction. I’m not sure it is their decision to make. ---
**Author:** ![Typo\_Negative](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/typo_negative/32/484_2.png) [@Typo\_Negative](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Typo_Negative)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/27 "2005-02-16T00:32:15Z")
> [@Mr. Moto](#): > > The Supreme Court has endorsed the teaching of religion as history, comparative religion, the Bible as literature, and the like. If the program in Virginia were reconfigured to concentrate on these topics, it would pass muster. True. But then it would not serve the purpose for which it is being used. ---
**Author:** ![Scarface\_Z](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/50afbb/32.png) [@Scarface\_Z](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scarface_Z)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 1:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/28 "2005-02-16T01:28:24Z")
> [@Diogenes the Cynic](#): > > For another thing, it is not for you or the government to decide what Jewish kids would be “well served” to learn. ``` Well, I hate to nitpick but that is the whole purpose of a curriculum and things like english requirements. ``` > [@](#): > > ‘But Jesus was a good person,"’ ``` This reminds me of one part from the movie "Super-Size Me." The guy shows flash cards of icons like Ronald McDonald, Wendy from Wendy's, and Grimace. Inevitably the kids overwhelming get Ronald right more than any other character. One kid looks at a card and guesses "George Bush?" "No, but close," the guy says. The guy flips the card over and reveals the person to be....you ready for this? Jesus Christ. Laughed my ass of. But more to the point, I feel there is a place for religious education, but it should be held off until high school. Hell, we read the world bible in senior English and learned about most of the religions in world history. (note: class of 2004, NJ not the bible belt) I am so thankful that I learned about all the religions, it helps a lot in making you a literate member of society. Not to mention a good basic education in religion helps if you ever want to read say, *Paradise Lost*, or any story with a christ-figure, or work in some sort of job where you have to deal with lot's of people (like a telemarketer). However, kindergarteners lack maturity to deal with and filter religious information and compare it to their own beliefs. Also, I say shame on those parents for not being able to educate their own children about their own religion. Hell, its has to be easier than giving the sex talk! Doesn't it? You are bad, Bad parents! ``` Although I admit, I was 18 and was getting ready for prom when my parents realized they never had “the talk” with me…sigh. ---
**Author:** ![Ale](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/f19dbf/32.png) [@Ale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ale)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/29 "2005-02-16T01:45:28Z")
> [@Homebrew](#): > > If they want their brats to learn this, then they should teach it after school and on the weekends. Why do they want their government teaching them this stuff? I think that a good motive for them is that they´re not only teaching their own children but evangelizing (???) all the other kids. The pertinent question then is, why do they feel the need to choke their religion down other people´s children? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/30 "2005-02-16T01:59:06Z")
When I lived and worked in Bristol VA/TN, they were doing the same sort of thing in at least school in Sullivan County, TN. They called it “release time.” It all came to a crashing halt when an atheist requested the opportunity to use that hour to teach the little kids about atheism. The school board decided that it was one thing to allow good Christians to have the opportunity to proselytize in the middle of the day, but if the atheists or the Buddhists or the Wiccans were going to take equal advantage of the opportunity, that would be evil. Story [here](http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/rel_war/rel_war.htm): > [@](#): > > The issue of “Released Time”, would provide the first solid defeat to religious extremists such as the Sullivan County Baptist Association. Released Time started out as a pilot program to release public school students for “religious instruction” during school hours. Controversy set in over safety issues, liability, and just what was being taught. One school board member complained that every time he inquired into subject matter of these churches, he got only silence. The intention was to limit the program only to local fundamentalist churches; enter Carletta Sims. > > Mrs. Sims, head of the Tennessee Atheist Organization, asked to start a release time program for atheism. She would be joined by Lewis Loflin, head of the TN/VA chapter of the World Union of Deists, in requesting equal access to the children out of fear of cult activity among some Christian groups. As they say, “The shit hit the fan.” > > In September 1998, the Sullivan County School Board voted to end Released Time. Mr. O’Dell, the school superintendent, informed the board that they would have to allow other faiths equal access or violate the Constitution and be open to lawsuits for religious discrimination. One board member gasped and asked, “You mean we have to let in Catholics, Mormons, and Buddhists?” Another board member lashed out at the fundamentalists for some kind of threatening letter he got for abstaining on an earlier vote. Rather than let atheists, Deists, Mormons, and Catholics have equal access, the board voted 5-2 to end Released Time. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/31 "2005-02-16T02:01:44Z")
> [@Ale](#): > > I think that a good motive for them is that they´re not only teaching their own children but evangelizing (???) all the other kids. The pertinent question then is, why do they feel the need to choke their religion down other people´s children? Because these kids’ parents might be evil non-Christians, so how else will they get saved? ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/32 "2005-02-16T03:49:25Z")
> [@SolGrundy](#): > > I think it’s absurd to say that violation of the separation of church and state is the least of the problems here. It’s the whole problem. It’s a case of people’s being entrusted with the rational education of children and being unable to do so without bringing their personal prejudices, beliefs, morals and axe-grinding into it. > > It’s how you get Bible lessons incorporated into publically-funded science classes, it’s how you get racial slurs about Jews’ being immoral incorporated into religious lessons, and it’s how you get dismissive comments about religion being “superstitious nonsense” being brought into discussions about the place of religion in public education. (Answer: there is **no** place for religion in public education, outside of theology classes – not to make value judgements about religion _of any kind_, whether it’s supporting it by incorporating it into the curriculum, or dismissing it.) Sorry, for not posting, but the bf has monopolized the computer all night. Anyway, **Sol Grundy** is quite right that the classtime is not the place for religious discussion of any kind, and children’s education should be tainted with the instructor’s personal biases. But this being the Pit, I will lay out my opinion of religion as superstitios nonsense. **Sol Grundy** will disagree, but that is the beauty of a pluralisr society, in that there is room for his POV and mine. ---
**Author:** ![SolGrundy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bbce88/32.png) [@SolGrundy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SolGrundy)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/33 "2005-02-16T03:58:16Z")
> [@gobear](#): > > But this being the Pit, I will lay out my opinion of religion as superstitios nonsense. **Sol Grundy** will disagree, but that is the beauty of a pluralisr society, in that there is room for his POV and mine. You’re right, of course, that saying it in the Pit is not at all the same as saying it to a bunch of school kids as their teacher. Plus I’m obliged as part of my membership agreement with the SDMB to make some kind of response every time that’s said. It’s apparently just a formality at this point, really. ---
**Author:** ![chukhung](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e79b87/32.png) [@chukhung](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chukhung)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 4:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/34 "2005-02-16T04:11:39Z")
> [@Inigo Montoya](#): > > pretty damned good for the rest of us heathens who just want our kids to not have to scratch their asses when they hear words like “Ramadan” and think of a bad Japanese movie. Now I’m curious. 'Cause when I hear the word “Ramadan”, it makes me think of [one of the finest Japanese movies ever made](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042876/). Which bad Japanese movie are those heathen kids thinking of? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/35 "2005-02-16T04:42:57Z")
> [@](#): > > Beverly Ridell, who grew up going to the Staunton schools, teaches first- and second-grade Sunday school at church and opposes religious classes during school time. > > “I asked them whether Jesus was a Christian and they said ‘yes.’ When I said, ‘Jesus was a Jew,’ one girl said, 'But Jesus was a good person,”’ Ridell said. > [@](#): > > Is this what the Bible thumpers are teaching their kids, that being Jewish means you’re not a good person? > > What other bigotry and hate mongering is being passed down to kids with this superstitious nonsense? While I oppose religious education in schools, I do think we need to recognize there’s no reason to assume this little girl aquired the belief that Jews aren’t good people as part of the lesson plan. It seems more likely to me this was something she picked up at home. ---
**Author:** ![Talon\_Karrde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Talon\_Karrde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Talon_Karrde)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/36 "2005-02-16T05:01:22Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > While I oppose religious education in schools, I do think we need to recognize there’s no reason to assume this little girl aquired the belief that Jews aren’t good people as part of the lesson plan. It seems more likely to me this was something she picked up at home. I agree, except I wouldn’t say it’s necessarily more likely that she picked it up at home. I’d say it’s just as likely. If these people are rabid enough to want to teach Christianity in a public school, it’s not too much of a stretch that they’d teach anti-Semitism. ---
**Author:** ![Freyr](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/freyr/32/5763_2.png) [@Freyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freyr)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/37 "2005-02-16T05:01:45Z")
It’s really a shame that each religious denomination couldn’t set up some sort of instructional class that would teach the children of that denomination the particular ins and outs of its respective theology. That way, the public schools woun’t be burdened with worrying about violating the church/state boundry and the parents could be assured their children would receive the moral and religious instruction they think is best. Hey, why don’t they do it on the day that’s set aside as a holy day for that particular denomination so the whole family could go to their particular place of worship together. While the parents partake of the official religious rituals, the childern could receive a quality religious education by officials of that particular religion rather than some “state approved” teacher who may not even know much about a particular religion. And it needs a catchy name… maybe something alliterative… something that could go with “school” … ---
**Author:** ![Tha1D0g](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tha1d0g/32/7274_2.png) [@Tha1D0g](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tha1D0g)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/38 "2005-02-16T05:09:49Z")
They asked if Jesus was a Christian? :smack: Jesus _was_ Christ… so no, he was not a Christian, because being a "“Christian” means you’re Christ-like… and since Jesus _was_ Christ… …well you figure out the rest. ---
**Author:** ![kung\_fu\_lola](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f4b2a3/32.png) [@kung\_fu\_lola](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kung_fu_lola)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/39 "2005-02-16T05:10:57Z")
> [@Little Nemo](#): > > While I oppose religious education in schools, I do think we need to recognize there’s no reason to assume this little girl aquired the belief that Jews aren’t good people as part of the lesson plan. It seems more likely to me this was something she picked up at home. I’m guessing it went something like this: Jesus is my Lord ----\> Killing people is bad ----\> The Jews Killed Jesus ----\> Jews are Evil. ---
**Author:** ![Tha1D0g](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tha1d0g/32/7274_2.png) [@Tha1D0g](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tha1D0g)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2005, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189/40 "2005-02-16T05:20:11Z")
The New Testament does not really say figuratively or literally that the Jews were bad people or not… But it does suggest that the Jewish people rejected God. This rejection of God happened when they choose not to belief that the prophecy of God coming to earth happened through Jesus. Therefore the rejection of Jesus was the rejection of God. There are plenty of times in the NT where it has been plainly stated that the Gentiles were no better off than the Jews. In fact it states the opposite. I think it was Paul who said it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-love-from-the-jesus-fan-club/290189.md?page=3)