# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/241 "2011-02-07T06:29:11Z")
I’m, not defending Islam, moron, I’m saying Christianity isn’t any better. All people are assholes. Religion has nothing to do with it. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/242 "2011-02-07T06:31:45Z")
Which Islam are you defending? The true Islam, or one of the others? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/243 "2011-02-07T06:33:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m, not defending Islam, moron, I’m saying Christianity isn’t any better. All people are assholes. Religion has nothing to do with it. Please see Post 237. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/244 "2011-02-07T06:39:35Z")
He didn’t say assholes couldn’t type. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/245 "2011-02-07T06:51:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m, not defending Islam, moron, I’m saying Christianity isn’t any better. All people are assholes. Religion has nothing to do with it. Considering the fact that you believe Muslim academics who admire Al Jazeera as “Islamophobic douchebags” it’s pretty obvious you’re not in any position to make comments about religion. Please read some books on the subject and once you’re able to spout more than banal cliches come back to the grownups table. Until then, stop bothering the adults. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 7:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/246 "2011-02-07T07:14:17Z")
I must be agnostic by inclination as well as conviction, because certainty creeps me out. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/247 "2011-02-07T07:51:50Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Considering the fact that you believe Muslim academics who admire Al Jazeera as “Islamophobic douchebags” it’s pretty obvious you’re not in any position to make comments about religion. > > Please read some books on the subject and once you’re able to spout more than banal cliches come back to the grownups table. > > Until then, stop bothering the adults. Yeah, you and Magellan, the adults. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/248 "2011-02-07T08:04:54Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Yeah, you and Magellan, the adults. Are you completely incapable of adding anything of substance? Damn, your schtick is tired. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 8:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/249 "2011-02-07T08:34:23Z")
As is yours. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 11:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/250 "2011-02-07T11:25:07Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > At the risk of being declared “PC” by the Looney-Tunes Brigade around here, I have to point out that “religion” /= “culture.” The young girl died because her culture is a sick one and needs to be extirpated from the planet. To blame all followers of her religion for the sins of a few is…un-Christian. > > Bad, bad fatwa! No biscuit! When in large parts of the world the ‘culture’ and ‘religion’ have been so intertwined for so long they have become one this is just an academic distinction with no meaning. The fact is that in large parts of the world Islam as taken an extremely barbaric form. It might not have been like it in the past and it might not be like that in the future and it might not be like that in many societies in the present. That doesn’t alter the fact these atrocities are done under the auspices of Islam and some barbarities, such as the execution of apostates, are coded into the law of our supposed allies like Pakistan and Afghanistan. Islam, as practiced (and I don’t care about ‘no true Scotsman’ hand-waving about the mumbo jumbo) is some parts of the world at the moment is barbaric and should be condemned. Where it is not, it should not be painted with a broad brush. And too right I’m happy to condemn The RCC and Catholicism for its many and various crimes against humanity up to and including the present day. As for the evil of Fundamentalist Christianity as in Uganda and aided and abetted by their US allies. That is also a crime. The sooner organised religion dies of embarrassment the better off we’d all be. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/251 "2011-02-07T13:09:37Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > … No one stood up for her. … No one was supposed to need to stand up for her. After reading your cite, I fear you missed this, > [@](#): > > … The deputy commissioner, the superintendent of police of Shariatpur and the thana nirbahi officer of Naria upazila – where the incident took place–will have to report to the HC in 15 days how it happened although the court (HC) had eight months ago declared fatwa illegal and a punishable offence. … > > … The bench headed by Justice Syed Mahmud Hossain on July 8 last year delivered the verdict declaring illegal all kinds of extra-judicial punishment including those in the name of fatwa at local arbitrations. > > Following three writ petitions, the court directed the authorities concerned to take punitive action against people involved in enforcing fatwa against women. > > It also observed that infliction of brutal punishment including caning, whipping and beating at local salish [arbitration] by persons devoid of judicial authority constitutes violation of the constitutional rights. … Oh well, I’m sure you just didn’t notice it, after all, that it was the bulk of the article did make it hard to spot in your zeal to find some new reason to bitch about Islam. I guess you missed [**AK84** ’s](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13434680#post13434680) post too, > [@](#): > > Police in Bangladesh have arrested four Islamic clerics …[RIGHT][CITE](http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/feb/03/bangladesh-clerics-arrested-after-girl-whipped)[/RIGHT] Just because something is illegal doesn’t mean it doesn’t still happen. Seems like the Bangladesh government is already doing exactly what you all seem to want, what the fuck are they supposed to do if some segment of the population isn’t interested in following along? As far as I know it’s illegal to kick the shit out of a person under arrest . . . not that that stops it from happening [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=595760). But I guess that’s really not that bad . . . since it wasn’t Moooslims doing the kicking. :rolleyes: CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 7, 2011, 1:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/252 "2011-02-07T13:13:36Z")
So, magellan, tell us now, what it was behind those folks, seems to have been entire towns, in the US who helped some dude who killed a doctor hide out for so long. Can you do that? After all, the killer’s rationale for offing the doctor was the killer’s belief, Christianity, wasn’t it? And this all happened in a country that outlaws such killing. ---
**Author:** ![NCDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecccb3/32.png) [@NCDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCDane)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/253 "2011-02-08T01:38:35Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So, magellan, tell us now, what it was behind those folks, seems to have been entire towns, in the US who helped some dude who killed a doctor hide out for so long. Can you do that? After all, the killer’s rationale for offing the doctor was the killer’s belief, Christianity, wasn’t it? And this all happened in a country that outlaws such killing. Whole towns? What whole towns? Let me tell you: You are speaking of Eric Rudolph, apprehended in Murphy NC. Many town residents knew of his existence, and some may even have known who he was, and abetted him. But it is highly unlikely that the “whole town” was in on the act, and even if the whole town was, \*its population is only ~1500. \* Being a scientist you would know that one such isolated sample is not enough to draw any conclusions from. On the other hand, I think the Pew sample is probably a good enough base for worldwide extrapolation. It’s a lot better than Murphy NC, that’s for sure! There is also the fact that about two or so abortion MDs total have victims of Christian terrorist murder, limited geographically to the USA, admittedly a big place. But compare those two or so abortionist victims with what are, by now, 100s of thousands of victims of Islamic terror, all the way from Bali to the Middle East, to New York City. And after you’re done with the comparing give us your scientific opinion as to which is worse, and I mean much worse. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/254 "2011-02-08T01:44:18Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sorry. I did miss it. As is probably evident by now, the atrocity occurred in central Bangladesh. As far as my goal with the thread, I was outraged, appalled, disgusted. I also thought people should be reminded of the degree to which barbarism is still associated with the religion—today in 2011. But mainly I was using the Pit for what it’s here for. My heart goes out to that young girl. No one stood up for her. So, so sad. Ah. You probably shoulda said. Mine, too. Thanks for responding. So, what was that newspaper you linked to? Is it one that you read all the time? If not, how did you happen to find it? P.S. You should totally ask the mods to close this thread, as it appears to have been hijacked beyond all redemption. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/255 "2011-02-08T01:45:09Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > No one was supposed to need to stand up for her. After reading your cite, I fear you missed this,… I fear you didn’t read the last paragraph in my OP. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/256 "2011-02-08T01:45:59Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > Absent scientific polling I cannot speak for anyone but myself. > > However, I think it is a safe guess that over 90% of all Christians > worldwide would agree with me that such behavior is abhorrent. > > Now, speaking of scientific polling, see page 14 of this link: > > [Pew Muslim Poll Results released 12/2/10](http://pewglobal.org/files/2010/12/Pew-Global-Attitudes-Muslim-Report-FINAL-December-2-2010.pdf) > > And try to follow some simple arithmetic: > > Number of Muslims in countries polled: > (in millions) > 74 Turkey > 79 Egypt > 6 Jordan > 3 Lebanon > 203 Indonesia > 174 Pakistan > 78 Nigeria > 617million TOTAL combined Muslim population of the countries polled > > Percentage of Muslims in countries polled favoring capital punishment for apostasy: > 5 Turkey > 84 Egypt > 86 Jordan > 6 Lebanon > 30 Indonesia > 76 Pakistan > 51 Nigeria > > Number Muslims multiplied by percentage favoring capital punishment for apostasy = > number Muslims favoring per country: > (in millions) > 4 Turkey > 66 Egypt > 5 Jordan > 0.2 Lebanon > 61 Indonesia > 132 Pakistan > 40 Nigeria > > \*\*308 million TOTAL combined Muslim population of the countries polled favoring capital punishment for apostasy > > 308/617 = 50% = overall percentage favoring\*\* You’ve actually presented very good evidence that Islam _isn’t_ the problem. The fact that there is such a wide variance among percentages from nation to nation shows that the controlling factor _isn’t_ Islam. If Islam were the controlling factor, typically you’d see much more similar percentages of muslims favoring capital punishment for apostacy from nation to nation. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/257 "2011-02-08T01:50:47Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Ah. You probably shoulda said. Mine, too. > > Thanks for responding. > > So, what was that newspaper you linked to? Is it one that you read all the time? If not, how did you happen to find it? You know, I don’t know the paper. And I forget how I found it. I think it was through one of the British news sites, which I got to through Drudge. They seem to include more non-Western news than the usual U.S. sites. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/258 "2011-02-08T01:54:50Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > So, magellan, tell us now, what it was behind those folks, seems to have been entire towns, in the US who helped some dude who killed a doctor hide out for so long. Can you do that? After all, the killer’s rationale for offing the doctor was the killer’s belief, Christianity, wasn’t it? And this all happened in a country that outlaws such killing. In addition to what NCDane offered, it is my recollection that Rudolph managed to evade capture through his knowledge of the deep woods in the area, and his ability to spend extended periods out there. No doubt he had some people helping him, but the picture you paint I don’t think resembles reality. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/259 "2011-02-08T02:05:50Z")
One day, magellan, you, along with NCDane, just might realize that’s the whole point of my post. Since you seem to have trouble grasping the issue, here it is in a nutshell: You are painting a picture that does not reflect reality. ---
**Author:** ![NCDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecccb3/32.png) [@NCDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCDane)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/260 "2011-02-08T02:07:59Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You’ve actually presented very good evidence that Islam _isn’t_ the problem. > > The fact that there is such a wide variance among percentages from nation to nation shows that the controlling factor _isn’t_ Islam. If Islam were the controlling factor, typically you’d see much more similar percentages of muslims favoring capital punishment for apostacy from nation to nation. See my post #135 here: [Thread: Are we being naive about the possibility of Egyptian “democracy”?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13441197#post13441197) It’s a bit long, but I am confident you can handle it. I would like to add that it is a measure of the complete and utter unreality of your position that you could simply dismiss religion as being irrelevant to the core life and death beliefs of 100s of millions of people. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=14)