# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/261 "2011-02-08T02:10:53Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > One day, magellan, you, along with NCDane, just might realize that’s the whole point of my post. Since you seem to have trouble grasping the issue, here it is in a nutshell: You are painting a picture that does not reflect reality. So you admit, that it was not whole towns, do you? So that means we’re talking about a few individuals. Which means you have no evidence whatsoever that some large swath (or swath of any size) of Christians who approve of killing abortion doctors. And that means your left with the evidence of large swatch of Muslims who support barbarism. And THAT means, as usual, you an’t got shit. ---
**Author:** ![NCDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecccb3/32.png) [@NCDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCDane)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/262 "2011-02-08T02:12:42Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > One day, magellan, you, along with NCDane, just might realize that’s the whole point of my post. Since you seem to have trouble grasping the issue, here it is in a nutshell: You are painting a picture that does not reflect reality. What a disappointing reply. I guess you ain’t the science advisor you are supposed to be after all. Or if you are you are staying away from it because it has dawned on you that your nuts are in a wringer. ---
**Author:** ![Frylock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/ce7236/32.png) [@Frylock](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frylock)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/263 "2011-02-08T02:12:56Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > See my post #135 here: > > [Thread: Are we being naive about the possibility of Egyptian “democracy”?](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?p=13441197#post13441197) > > It’s a bit long, but I am confident you can handle it. > > I would like to add that it is a measure of the complete and utter > unreality of your position that you could simply dismiss religion as > being irrelevant to the core life and death beliefs of 100s of millions > of people. What I said was the evidence you presented was better evidence _against_ your conclusion than it is evidence _for_ your conclusion. Nothing in what I said was about how relevant religion is to people’s “core life and death beliefs.” ---
**Author:** ![NCDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecccb3/32.png) [@NCDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCDane)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/264 "2011-02-08T02:22:31Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > What I said was the evidence you presented was better evidence _against_ your conclusion than it is evidence _for_ your conclusion. I know what you said, but you misunderstood what I said, or you are being willfully dense. > [@Frylock](#): > > Nothing in what I said was about how relevant religion is to people’s “core life and death beliefs.” You are denying the relevance of religion to the specific positive responses to the specific poll quesions which have been under discussion for 260+ posts. I should not need to spell that out for you, but I guess you are having a bad day, or something. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/265 "2011-02-08T02:40:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > In addition to what NCDane offered, it is my recollection that Rudolph managed to evade capture through his knowledge of the deep woods in the area, and his ability to spend extended periods out there. No doubt he had some people helping him, but the picture you paint I don’t think resembles reality. Tjhere were signs in shop windows saying “Pray for Eric Rudolph,” and he was a folk hero on the internet among teabagger type. Also, message to **NCDane** , a hell of a lot more than two doctors have been murdered by Christian terrorists, and there’s no reason to just narrow the Christian terrorism to abortion violence anyway. Back in the 90’s, Christians engaged in a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing, torture, systematic mass rape and genocide against Muslims. The good Christian Milosevic made Osama bin Laden look like an amateur. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/266 "2011-02-08T03:05:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Tjhere were signs in shop windows saying “Pray for Eric Rudolph,” and he was a folk hero on the internet among teabagger type. Also, message to **NCDane** , a hell of a lot more than two doctors have been murdered by Christian terrorists, and there’s no reason to just narrow the Christian terrorism to abortion violence anyway. Back in the 90’s, Christians engaged in a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing, torture, systematic mass rape and genocide against Muslims. The good Christian Milosevic made Osama bin Laden look like an amateur. If I may ask you again, can you please respond to Post 237. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/267 "2011-02-08T03:18:52Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You’ve actually presented very good evidence that Islam _isn’t_ the problem. This is sort of like the gun control debate. Islam is a tool that is widely used to kill innocents, subjugate women, and generally wreak evil around the world. That doesn’t make Islam itself bad. The people using it that way are bad. Just as guns don’t kill people, people kill people. But that doesn’t necessarily mean we shouldn’t have any gun control at all. Perhaps a minimum age requirement is a good idea, or background checks. I’m not sure what the analogous response to Islam would be, but it does not follow that just because Islam is in no way itself evil, we should not discuss or do anything about Islam being used for evil. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/268 "2011-02-08T03:24:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What’s your metric? In the past 20 years how many innocent people have been blown up in the name of Christianity? Beheaded? Been the victims of honor killings? Stoned to death? Hundreds of thousands, within the last 20 years, have been murdered, tortured, and raped in the name of Christianity. Millions have been displaced and ripped from family by ethnic cleansing. Muslims don’t have shit on Christians and never have. Incidentally, Christians are currently working hard to mandate execution for homosexuals and prison for people who don’t report them. ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/269 "2011-02-08T03:38:28Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Hundreds of thousands, within the last 20 years, have been murdered, tortured, and raped in the name of Christianity. Millions have been displaced and ripped from family by ethnic cleansing. Muslims don’t have shit on Christians and never have. > > Incidentally, Christians are currently working hard to mandate execution for homosexuals and prison for people who don’t report them. They are no more Christian or Christian like, than religious hijackers , kinda like Muslims whose wish is to kill all the non-Muslim infidels, I would imagine. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/270 "2011-02-08T03:42:37Z")
There is no school of Islam which wants to kill all non-Muslims. That is a myth. ---
**Author:** ![ZPG\_Zealot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/e47c2d/32.png) [@ZPG\_Zealot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ZPG_Zealot)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/271 "2011-02-08T04:00:05Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > If I may ask you again, can you please respond to Post 237. Thanks. Even the partisan pro-Serb sites are going to admit to a Muslim death toll in the former Yugoslavia of at least 30,000 in the 1990s. Of course, the Muslims killed plenty of Christians also. Civil wars are hell like that. But take it from one who used to watch the priests bless the AKs before they descended on enemy villages (sometimes the priests were even among the combatants), tell a Christian that it’s God’s" work to kill the unbeliever and he or she can be as brutal as any Taliban. > **[Bosnia Death Toll Revealed!](http://grayfalcon.blogspot.com/2004/11/bosnia-death-toll-revealed.html)** > > At long last, the Big Lie can be laid to rest: the war in Bosnia did not result in "260,000 dead" or any such nonsense. Even though that fig... ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/272 "2011-02-08T04:14:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > There is no school of Islam which wants to kill all non-Muslims. That is a myth. Just as some Christians want to kill homosexuals, so do some Muslims want to kill all infidels. [http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill\_the\_infidels.asp](http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/273 "2011-02-08T04:22:29Z")
> [@Frylock](#): > > You’ve actually presented very good evidence that Islam _isn’t_ the problem. > > The fact that there is such a wide variance among percentages from nation to nation shows that the controlling factor _isn’t_ Islam. If Islam were the controlling factor, typically you’d see much more similar percentages of muslims favoring capital punishment for apostacy from nation to nation. You know. That post and others in this thread made me see some vial bigotry I had growing. I’d never think less of a person because they were Muslim, and I’d get downright angry if someone was singled out for harassment because of it. However things like the OP fed hate for the religion, but it’s not the religion, it’s certain, vocal and powerful people in it. As others have said Christianity has some nasty bits too, this isn’t a demonstration of the evils of Islam. It’s a demonstration of evils of not protecting human rights to separation of church and state, equality under the law, and rights to safety. Somehow that concept got blended and obscured with Islam in a big ball of hate. So even if the OP ignores it yours and others words weren’t wasted. ---
**Author:** ![NCDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecccb3/32.png) [@NCDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCDane)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/274 "2011-02-08T04:26:21Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Tjhere were signs in shop windows saying “Pray for Eric Rudolph,” So what? > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > and he was a folk hero on the internet among teabagger type. Quite a few teabaggers got elected last cycle. Please provide links to any teabagger candidate sites expressing Eric Rudopph hero-worship. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Also, message to **NCDane** , a hell of a lot more than two doctors have been murdered by Christian terrorists, According to Wiki it has been four MDs and four other clinic employees murdered since 1993. There were also 17 non-fatal injuries in the US and Canada since 1977. > **[Anti-abortion violence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-abortion_violence)** > > Anti-abortion violence is violence committed against individuals and organizations that perform abortions or provide abortion counseling. Incidents of violence have included destruction of property, including vandalism; crimes against people, including kidnapping, stalking, assault, attempted murder, and murder; and crimes affecting both people and property, as well as arson and terrorism, such as bombings. > Anti-abortion extremists are considered a current domestic terrorist threat by the Unit... The number of bombing and arson cases total a bit over 300, and is higher than I expected. However, with not one bombing or arson fatality I wonder if there was intent to inflict anything more than property damage. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > and there’s no reason to just narrow the Christian terrorism to abortion violence anyway. Back in the 90’s, Christians engaged in a massive campaign of ethnic cleansing, torture, systematic mass rape and genocide against Muslims. The good Christian Milosevic made Osama bin Laden look like an amateur. What makes you think Milosevich was any kind of a Christian? The Wiki biography says he was “atheris(t) (formerly Sebian Orthodox…)” and the following article indicates his only religion was self-interest: > **[The ethnic cleanser - April 5, 1999](https://www.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/time/1999/03/29/milosevic.html)** (from link): > [@](#): > > He was the son of a teacher who had studied to be an Orthodox priest and a puritanical schoolteacher… > > Despite his father’s interest in religion, Milosevic never embraced the church. At 18 he turned himself into a Communist Party zealot, assuming so thoroughly the image of a dedicated functionary that admiring colleagues dubbed him “Little Lenin.”… > > By 1984 he was fixing his way through the national party, and by 1987, he led Serbia’s Communist Party. > > Yet for him communism was just a passing phase. His wife, a fervent Marxist, says ideology has never meant as much to Milosevic as it does to her. When he saw a chance to grab power, he pushed the communists aside and refashioned himself as a nationalist… > > “He does not believe in ideas,” says a Russian-born observer. “He makes no value judgments.” So far as anyone can tell, he brought with him no grand plan for Serbia. His ambition appeared to consist of staying on top–forever… And no one will ever make Bin Laden look like a amateur. The 9/11 operation was skillfully planned and carried out. Since then we have done a lot better job than I thought we would keeping a lid on him aside from his home terrirtory since. Let us hope we can keep it that way, because his knife searches for the heart of every one of us. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/275 "2011-02-08T04:48:03Z")
Anyone who claims that Slobodan was a “good Christian” is either lying, being sarcastic or doesn’t know what they are talking about. It’s ironic because Dio is largely correct but his arguments are embarrassingly bad as well as quite trite and predictable. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 5:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/276 "2011-02-08T05:22:21Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I fear you didn’t read the last paragraph in my OP. This one? > [@magellan01](#): > > … Yet, their might be a bright side. The court actually thinks something might be wrong here and are looking into it. We’ll see. I’ll leave it to others to decide if that adequately sums up my quote from your cite. CMC fnord! BTW Might want to look at the time-stamp on that other cite in my post. (Your OP post; 02-04-2011, 10:19 PM, cite that arrests had already been made; Thursday 3 February 2011 10.44 GMT (5.44 EST) Somehow I doubt I’ll ever see a thread started by the “Usual Suspects” like _Bangladesh declares extra-judicial punishment in the name of fatwa illegal_ or _Bangladesh clerics arrested after girl whipped to death_ . . . but one can always hope. We now return to the Two Minutes’ Hate. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/277 "2011-02-08T06:10:03Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > Anyone who claims that Slobodan was a “good Christian” is either lying, being sarcastic or doesn’t know what they are talking about. I assumed the sarcasm would be obvious. > [@](#): > > It’s ironic because Dio is largely correct but his arguments are embarrassingly bad as well as quite trite and predictable. You’ll have to enlighten me as to what’s wrong with them. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/278 "2011-02-08T06:12:12Z")
> [@AshenLady](#): > > Just as some Christians want to kill homosexuals, so do some Muslims want to kill all infidels. > > [http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill\_the\_infidels.asp](http://www.muslimaccess.com/articles/jihad/kill_the_infidels.asp) “Infidels” does not mean “non-Muslims.” You are misinformed. Your link is a joke, by the way. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9fc348/32.png) [@The\_Flying\_Dutchman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Flying_Dutchman)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/279 "2011-02-08T06:14:11Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > At the risk of being declared “PC” by the Looney-Tunes Brigade around here, I have to point out that “religion” /= “culture.” The young girl died because her culture is a sick one and needs to be extirpated from the planet. To blame all followers of her religion for the sins of a few is…un-Christian. > > Bad, bad fatwa! No biscuit! I see. Its local culture not religion. I wouldn’t discount culture since its integral to religion, but you simply can’t ignore the impact of religion either. Islam is the preferred religion when you want a male dominated society and want your women to be your bitches. You must read the PEW results provided by **NCDane** What I found interesting is that the two muslim countries which have extremely low muslim preference for capital punishment in the case of apostasy are closest to christian Europe. Cultural influence would explain that. Extremely low, but only in comparison to other muslim countries. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [February 8, 2011, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/280 "2011-02-08T06:20:51Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > So what? > > Quite a few teabaggers got elected last cycle. Please provide links to > any teabagger candidate sites expressing Eric Rudopph hero-worship. I said “teabagger types.” You know - the kind of retards who vote for teabaggers. I didn’t say candidates. > [@](#): > > According to Wiki it has been four MDs and four other clinic employees > murdered since 1993. There were also 17 non-fatal injuries in the US > and Canada since 1977. Why are you stopping at 1993, and why isn’t 8 murdered victims of Christian terrorism sufficient for you? > [@](#): > > The number of bombing and arson cases total a bit over 300, and is higher > than I expected. However, with not one bombing or arson fatality I wonder > if there was intent to inflict anything more than property damage. Christ, this is desperate. > [@](#): > > What makes you think Milosevich was any kind of a Christian? He was nominally Serbian Orthodox. regardless of his personal beliefs, he explored Christian religious bigotry against Muslims for his own ends. It’s not especially relevant how devout he was, What matters is that he led a Christian genocide of Muslims. > [@](#): > > And no one will ever make Bin Laden look like a amateur. Serbian Christians led by Milosevic killed over a hundred times more people than bin Laden and victimized millions more non-fatally besides that. The rape camps were especially nice. I’ve never seen Muslims do that. Even al Qaeda has _some_ fucking decency. Christians seem to have no bottom. remember the Holocaust? Muslims have never done that either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=15)