# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![El\_Kabong](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/el_kabong/32/496_2.png) [@El\_Kabong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Kabong)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/321 "2011-02-09T20:01:53Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > (just proving that conventional line length can be achieved) > > Nothing substantive to add, except: **NCDane** _please_ knock it off with the unorthodox carriage returns. I don’t hate you for your views (although neither do I find them particularly persuasive or admirable. Nor am I continuing to read them, frankly), but I am very close to hating you for making my head hurt when I see your name on a post. I was about to post roughly the same thing. **NC** , you don’t have to put in hard carriage returns to mark line breaks; the board software will sort that out for you. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/322 "2011-02-09T20:04:25Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > I did not say Lebanon had no terrorists or that Hezbollah > was not a terrorist organization. I said “I am not sure that > Lebanon does have more terrorists than Jordan”. As a percentage, it seems like there should be a LOT more Jordanian terrorists than Lebanese terrorists. This does not appear to be the case. > [@](#): > > You specified ME countires, and Nigeria and Indonesia are not ME. Oh ok, then read that post without the ME reference. > [@](#): > > Irish Catholic terror was limited to the British Isles, and Jewish > terror was limited to Palestine. Islamic terrorism is the only form > of religious terrorism that I know of which has ever been so close > to world-wide in scope. What is the significance of the non-local nature of the Islamic terrorism? My point was that Islam is driving the terrorism about as much as catholicism drove Irish terrorists or Judaism drove Irgun and Lehi. It isn’t the ridiculous things that are in centuries old religious texts that drove the terrorism or radicalized these folks. > [@](#): > > The Anarchists of apprx. 100 years ago were also nearly world-wide, > but they were not religious. I’m not sure what you are getting at. > [@](#): > > On the other hand, a common desire of Muslims worldwide > is destruction of the Jewish state. Using the phrase “destruction of the jewish state” is a bit dramtic. It sounds like these people want to kill all the Jews. Isn’t anti-zionist a better description? I strongly disagree with Zionism and the notion that Israel MUST remain majority Jewish forever and by any means necessary. Is THAT what you are talking about? > [@](#): > > This applies to Muslims who are unrelated to any inhabitants of Israel/Palestine except by religion. I could say that there is Jewish support for Israel as a jewish state and Jewish antipathy towards Arab Muslims even though these Jews are unrelated to any inhabitants of Israel except by religion. Does that mean that I can generalize about jews and Zionism? Is there some global Zionist conspiracy merely because jews around the world can identify with the perspective of Zionist jews in Israel? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/323 "2011-02-09T20:07:48Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > “Infidels” don’t come across terribly well in any of the Abrahamic religions and calling any of them “religions of peace” or “religions of war” is grossly simplistic. Well can we at least call one of them the “religion of whipping 14 year old rape victims to death” … see OP and title ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/324 "2011-02-09T20:10:50Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well can we at least call one of them the “religion of whipping 14 year old rape victims to death” > > … see OP and title Can we call Christianity the “religion of hanging homosexual people and burning witches”? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/325 "2011-02-09T20:14:35Z")
> [@AshenLady](#): > > Hey it’s only religion and are we here, so religous that every scintilla of religion needs close examination, as such? > > All religions and I mean ALL religions have screwed up things about them. No one gets a pass, not any of them. > > Whether it’s Pagan, or Jewish, Jain, or Zoroastrian, Islam, Christian…no religion is perfect because organized religion is quite probably a product of mankind, so imperfect are we all. I dunno. I don’t think what the Zionists are doing is particularly Jewish. I don’t think that what Osama bin Laden is doing is particularly muslim. I don’t think taht what Glenn beck is doing is particularly Christian. I guess I’m saying that these folks are not real scotsmen. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/326 "2011-02-09T20:20:16Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Can we call Christianity the “religion of hanging homosexual people and burning witches”? Or better yet, the religion of sodomizing alter boys, the Inquisition, picketing the funerals of fallen soldiers, and Pat Robertson. The list never fucking ends when you characterize the entirety of a religion by the worst things ever done in its name. Or were you whooshed… Or was i double secret probation whooshed? ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/327 "2011-02-09T20:20:46Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > I dunno. I don’t think what the Zionists are doing is particularly Jewish. I don’t think that what Osama bin Laden is doing is particularly muslim. I don’t think taht what Glenn beck is doing is particularly Christian. > > I guess I’m saying that these folks are not real scotsmen. Doesn’t matter much because all religions are fraught with the vissitudes of being human, and nobody much is perfect. Religion tries to make perfection out of some pretty unperfect precepts and people. It’s the human condition…we like to think that it’s love thy neighbor as thyself, the golden rule, which is a principle of all major religions, yet that one idea can’t even be made into reality. Such is the stuff of the ways of mankind. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/328 "2011-02-09T20:23:08Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Well there was at least one post (the one I quote) that makes reference to 50% to signify that a majority of Muslims believe something. > > I don’t know why your fixated on 50%. Do you really think that if 49% of a group believes that it’s okay to have sex with 5-year-olds, that it wouldn’t be a problem, because, “well, it’s not a _majority_…”? > > Some Muslims are probably OK with fucking cats. So what? Some Christians, Athiests, Jews, etc would probably be OK with whipping a raped girl to death too. What is your point? You seem to want to paint the whole of the muslim faith with this one incident. If your point was not to connect muslims generaly with this event then why the title? Here’s the thing. When’s the last time you heard about Buddhists punishing a girl for being raped by whipping a young girl to death? Jews? Hindus? Mennonites? Quakers? Catholics? Jews? Mormons? But wait, that’s just one incident. And if that were a purely isolated incident, I think you’d be right. But we have incidents like [the three 12-year-old Catholic schoolgirls beheaded walking home from school by Muslims?](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4387604.stm) And the practice of sentencing [woman accuse of adultery to be stoned to death.](http://www.rawa.org/stoned.htm) And the [13-year-old girl who was gang raped and then when she went to the authorities was sentenced for adultery and stoned to death.](http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/11/somali-girl-pleaded-for-mercy-before-being-stoned-her-to-death-for-being-raped.html) And the unbelievably fucked up thinking that results in [a court of village elders deciding a girl needs to be raped by the men in another family because _her brother_ was walking unescorted with a girl from the “insulted family”. But wait, the five men who raped her were convicted and sentenced to death. But wait again, they were all acquitted on appeal.](http://ko.offroadpakistan.com/mukhtaran_bibi/) That’s just a few. And it doesn’t even get into the more everyday actions of the “religion of peace”: beheadings, blowing up of women and children, and flying planes into buildings. And what, pray tell, is the common denominator here. It’s not only that all this barbarism was perpetuated by Muslims. More important, they all perpetrated the barbarism in the name of Islam. Now, as I’ve said in this thread an elsewhere, this does not mean that all Muslims are such barbaric scumbags. It means that there is something about the religion that leads humans to act in the most barbaric ways. Let me know if you’d like more examples of the asshole Islamic extremists. Does that answer your question? ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/329 "2011-02-09T20:28:51Z")
I think that Muslim folk must know, somehow, that some of their goings on is of an extreme nature, a little more extreme than some other religions, but they need to seek a way to maintain their dignity, even if their religion might be a tad more fraught with indignity. I am not sure how it can square with the obvious wanting of respect, when a religion does really unrespectful type things. It’s gonna take someone smarter than me to figure that one out, that’s for sure. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/330 "2011-02-09T20:46:02Z")
> [@AshenLady](#): > > It’s gonna take someone smarter than me… Not gonna be a problem. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/331 "2011-02-09T20:50:18Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > My point was that Islam is driving the terrorism about as much as catholicism drove Irish terrorists or Judaism drove Irgun and Lehi. It isn’t the ridiculous things that are in centuries old religious texts that drove the terrorism or radicalized these folks.se jews around the world can identify with the perspective of Zionist jews in Israel? That depends on what “terrorism” committed by Muslims you’re referring to. The IRA is no more a Catholic organization than Nasser’s government was Muslim. Similarly, most of the Irgun weren’t religious at all. What was driving both groups was nationalism. Irish nationalism in the case of the IRA and Zionism in the case of the Irgun. Similarly, referring to Abu Nidal or the Black September guerillas who carried out Munich as “Muslim terrorists” or claim they were motivated by Islam would be asinine. They were motivated by Palestinian and Arab nationalism(the former being a subset of the latter). A much better comparison to Osama Bin Laden would be the Lord’s Resistance Army and the people who blew up abortion clinics. They were motivated by their views of Christianity just as Osama Bin Laden , Al Quaeda, Hamas and the Taliban are motivated by their view of Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/332 "2011-02-09T20:51:11Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Not gonna be a problem. 😃 Aw come one, there’s no point in when it’s that easy. You need an awesome joke to counterbalance such an easy set-up. I could pit you for this, but then it would take us in the pit about the pit subforum. And only mods have acess. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 8:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/333 "2011-02-09T20:57:15Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Aw come one, there’s no point in when it’s that easy. You need an awesome joke to counterbalance such an easy set-up. > I could pit you for this, but then it would take us in the pit about the pit subforum. And only mods have acess. Isn’t it worth something that I used the ellipsis special character (alt+0133) instead of three periods? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/334 "2011-02-09T21:15:29Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Here’s the thing. When’s the last time you heard about Buddhists punishing a girl for being raped by whipping a young girl to death? Jews? Hindus? Mennonites? Quakers? Catholics? Jews? Mormons? I thought you’d specifically said that it wasn’t valid to bring up the sins of other faiths. Wasn’t that your complaint? How about this: when was the last time a leader of the second most popular political party in Bangladesh requested the blessing of a man who had ordered a girl whipped to death for being raped? What I mean to ask is, will you acknowledge that their association with African witch hunters makes the Republican party a danger to women just as Islamist parties in the middle east and Europe are? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/335 "2011-02-09T21:18:02Z")
> [@saoirse](#): > > I thought you’d specifically said that it wasn’t valid to bring up the sins of other faiths. Wasn’t that your complaint? > > How about this: when was the last time a leader of the second most popular political party in Bangladesh requested the blessing of a man who had ordered a girl whipped to death for being raped? What I mean to ask is, will you acknowledge that their association with African witch hunters makes the Republican party a danger to women just as Islamist parties in the middle east and Europe are? Sorry, I’m not following you here. Can you clarify? ---
**Author:** ![Cort](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/77aa72/32.png) [@Cort](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cort)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/336 "2011-02-09T21:24:50Z")
An abstract question: What would it take for apologists for Islam to admit that beliefs have consequences, and that adherence to bad beliefs tends to have bad consequences? If there was discovered a handwritten scroll, penned by Mohammed himself, which mandated that every Muslim do his best to kill redheaded women on the second tuesday after Eid, and redheaded women were subsequently murdered on that date, where would the blame fall? Would it be on scripture? Or would it be on anything _but_ scripture? We seem to have no problem blaming fundamentalist Christian gaybashing on an adherence to Mosaic primitivism. What would it take to similarly blame for acts of Muslim violence on Quranic primitivism? After all, Islamists have no problem attributing their violence to scripture. Why should we be squeamish about it? ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 9:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/337 "2011-02-09T21:25:03Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Sorry, I’m not following you here. Can you clarify? Simple. Sarah Palin, the Vice-Presidential nominee of the Republican party, has a much closer relationship to religious zealots who torture teenage girls than any person with any power in Bangladesh. The men who do this are Christians, and are acting out of faith, supposedly, and at least 40% of Americans are either supporters of this behavior, or are willing to share a party and political power with their supporters. If we’re going to denounce the people who treat girls this way, shouldn’t we start with the ones closest at hand? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/338 "2011-02-09T21:26:47Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > Not gonna be a problem. 😃 Got the list right here, even got it in alphabetical order. Aardvark, Aaron A.,… ---
**Author:** ![saoirse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5daacb/32.png) [@saoirse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/saoirse)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/339 "2011-02-09T21:28:13Z")
> [@Cort](#): > > An abstract question: What would it take for apologists for Islam to admit that beliefs have consequences, and that adherence to bad beliefs tends to have bad consequences? If there was discovered a handwritten scroll, penned by Mohammed himself, which mandated that every Muslim do his best to kill redheaded women on the second tuesday after Eid, and redheaded women were subsequently murdered on that date, where would the blame fall? Would it be on scripture? Or would it be on anything _but_ scripture? We seem to have no problem blaming fundamentalist Christian gaybashing on an adherence to Mosaic primitivism. What would it take to similarly blame for acts of Muslim violence on Quranic primitivism? After all, Islamists have no problem attributing their violence to scripture. Why should we be squeamish about it? Definitely the scripture. It’s why I hang around the tattoo parlor with big rocks(Exodus 22:18). ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 9, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/340 "2011-02-09T21:32:12Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Uh oh. Now you’ve gone and done it. > > Here, **magellan01** , let me save you a trip: > > _Since when is Muslim a race?_ > > Now please go away. :rolleyes: Shockingly, I’m not a retard. I said “racism” and I \*meant \*“racism.” Yes, people who aren’t idiots know that “Muslim” isn’t a race, but knee-jerk Muslimphobia is absolutely related to and informed by racism. Pop quiz: which U.S. President was suspected of being a Muslim? (Hint: Not one of the white ones.) People like magellan01 freak out about Muslims where they don’t freak out about Catholics because, to them, Muslim = brown and scary, Catholic = white and normal like them. Don’t presume to speak for me. It probably just means my point went over your head. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=18)