# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 34
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/661 "2011-02-11T21:17:38Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > Yes, if Zionism is taken to mean support for the creation and existence of the > modern Jewish state of Israel. Do you realize there are Jews who view the creation and existence of the modern Jewish state of Israel as being blasphemous? Jewish and Zionist are by no means synonymous. ---
**Author:** ![NCDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecccb3/32.png) [@NCDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCDane)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/662 "2011-02-11T21:20:45Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > (1) If the numbers suggest mainstream homocidal depravity then why do the numbers vary so much ebtween muslims of different countries. Doesn’t that suggest that it might be something other than religion that is causing this bloodthirstiness? > > (2) No it doesn’t require mathematically exact correlation but it does require statistically significant correlation, doesn’t it? I have already suggested historical explanantion for Turkey. I expect that differences elswhere are the result of the combination of random statistical variation and historical causes I do nor know of. ---
**Author:** ![NCDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecccb3/32.png) [@NCDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCDane)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/663 "2011-02-11T21:28:53Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Do you realize there are Jews who view the creation and existence of the modern Jewish state of Israel as being blasphemous? Jewish and Zionist are by no means synonymous. The only knowledge I have of this faction comes from the book _The Chosen_ by Chaim Potok. They were depicted as relenting to some extent once Israel became a fact rather than a potential. I would be very suprised if there are many Jews today who support abolishing the state if Israel. If there are any I doubt they make up as much as 1% of all Jews. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/664 "2011-02-11T21:32:04Z")
> [@Ibn\_Warraq](#): > > I’m sorry, but that claim is ridiculous. > > David Ben Gurion, the founder of Israel was an atheist as were many if not most of the original founders. > > Please give me the name of a single “militant Islamist” who is an atheist. Maybe I’m using the word islamist wrong. I was thinking about guys like Arafat and Saddam Hussein. They weren’t shy about using religion but they weren’t exactly driven by it. I think that similarly a lot of the terrorists these days use religion more as an excuse than commit politically driven terrorism than out of some deep religious conviction. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/665 "2011-02-11T21:41:09Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > The only knowledge I have of this faction comes from the book > _The Chosen_ by Chaim Potok. They were depicted as relenting > to some extent once Israel became a fact rather than a potential. > > I would be very suprised if there are many Jews today who support > abolishing the state if Israel. If there are any I doubt they make up > as much as 1% of all Jews. It is certainly a small group. But you really cannot use the term Zionist to mean “support for the existance of Israel.” It goes further than that, and there are many modern day Jews who would not describe themself as Zionists. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/666 "2011-02-11T21:49:22Z")
Megabee wrote: > [@](#): > > Holy shit. **Champion-of-Truth** both referenced Obsession and outed himself as a Birther. Amazing. “Birther” is an inaccurate slur and is used in a similar manner to the word “racist”. Those using it are essentially admitting they’re too stupid to debate the facts of the issue and merely want to shut down the discussion. You’re dismissed, moron. :rolleyes: El Kabong babbled: > [@](#): > > I can’t wait to hear what he has to say about the moon landings. I was so excited that day! Villa wrote, well, it was blah blah blah something, I can’t be bothered to even quote his worthless nonsense. The Tooth whined: > [@](#): > > Besides, I was just making a point about how the US is little better and practices destruction on a much wider scale than them scary Muslim folk. And tortures. Yeah, because you know, the CIA always feeds people into wood chippers feet first. :rolleyes: The appropriately named Vinyl Turnip wrote: > [@](#): > > Wish he’d done the latter _first_, so we’d have known to ignore everything he said after that. So you’re accusing me of being a birther, and I’ll bet you haven’t done two minutes of research into the eligibility debate. Another unworthy moron. If you have a pair, start a “birther” thread and I’ll eat you alive in it. Damuri Ajashi says: > [@](#): > > Well, thats kind of my point. Blaming Islam for this shit is like blaiming Christianity for every horrible thing that the west has ever done. Oh, so when all those terrorists scream “Allahu akbar” while committing their atrocities, it’s wrong to blame Islam? :rolleyes: Captain Amazingly Stupid made a fool of himself by saying: > [@](#): > > Mali’s far from a perfect state. It’s poor, there’s a good deal of corruption, their prisons are bad, and there’s still slavery in some parts of the north, as well as trafficking in persons, which the government has done a terrible job of fighting. But Mali does seem to fit as tolerant, free, and peaceful. Oh brother. :rolleyes: First, it’s not an Islamic state as I outlined earlier, but since I invited people to use even those states that are merely predominantly Muslim, I’ll let you slide on that aspect. However, you just proved yourself wrong! Plus, according to the WHO, 92% of Mali women have suffered genital mutilation, its health and and development indexes are amongst the worst in the world, diseases such as malaria and cholera are rampant, 2/3rds of the population has no sanitary drinking water, literacy rates are less than 50%, and as you admit, slavery exists. Buuuuuzzzzzzz! You lose! Damuri wrote: > [@](#): > > I was in NYC on 9/11 I had friends in those buildings on 9/11 (they all made it out) and i still don’t thik that 9/11 was as significant an event in maerican history as segregation, the Vietnam War, the assassination of MLK/JFK/RFK, or even the invention of comp0uters, cell phones and the internet. Wow, you’re a real scumbag to dminish the 9/11 attacks. > [@](#): > > Republican power SHINES when they can make people afraid. Yeah, like when Undercover Muslim President Obama’s chief of staff warned never to let a crisis go to waste, and Obama scared everyone by claiming if we needed to approve the ridiculous bail-outs he wanted or God forbid we’d see unemployment go above 8%. Of course, it passed, and unemployment hovered closer to 10%. You mean like that kinda fear mongering? :rolleyes: Elucidator whines: > [@](#): > > Oh, really? You can prove this, of course. The “most scholars” part. Got the cites right at your fingertips, do you? Or by “most scholars”, do you mean non-Islamic scholars who’s truthiness is affirmed by their concurrence with you? Well, Elucidator, until you get off your lazy ass and do some work of your own, I’m not gonna waste time with you. See, I know your kind. You demand someone put forth the effort and after they do you simply dismiss their sources regardless of how reputable. Not gonna waste my time playing that game with someone who’s clearly not interested in discussing the facts. When you show you can step up the the plate, I certainly will. > [@](#): > > “Rampant”, you say. But, of course, you can prove this? > > Thats rather a non-quantifiable term, isn’t it, a bit subjective. Is pedophilia “rampant” in the Catholic Church, or merely exists? You tell me. Define “subjective”. :rolleyes: See, two can play the evasion game. > [@](#): > > How very generous! You will respond to me so long as I accept your version of the facts? The IRA didn’t commit terrorist acts? Weren’t predominately Catholic Christians? Were they atheists? Scientologists? Covered that 10 times over dumbass. Get a reading comprehension course or something. > [@](#): > > And yet, here you are, banging away on your little keyboard. Hour after hour, in sublime indifference. A constipated little ball of hatred, shining rays of darkness into the world. Yeah, yeah, I’m all heartbroken over your deadly insults. Sigh. :rolleyes: El Kabong babbles on: > [@](#): > > Again, I have no particular interest in responding to the raving of a lunatic, but “But…I’m gonna keep posting idiot challenges and demands while remaining outside the fray because Im too stupid/lazy to bother with actual debate”. Yeah, we understand Kabong. Now shut up and go away. > [@](#): > > Well, no, I didn’t, and neither did you, because there weren’t tens or hundreds of thousands of muslims cramming the streets in celebration following the 9/11 attacks. There apparently were a few demonstrations in the Palestinian Territories, but these were carried by persons who would tend to be supportive pf Palestinian nationalism, rather than Islam per se. Cite? Wow, I like how dismissive that is! Cite for me proof that it was mainly Palestinian Nationals protesting. Back your claim. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/667 "2011-02-11T21:51:01Z")
It’s back. _Checks watch_ Yep - just enough time to get home from high school, have a PB&J and a snack from Mom, then on line to prove his masculinity by defending America against the Muslim hordes from the safety of his bedroom. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/668 "2011-02-11T21:56:01Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > All religion claims to make people better. Where conditions are > persistently bad religion may IMO be said to have failed in its mission. I’m not sure how thats relevant. All religions have reigned over abyssmal situations > [@](#): > > You are right, it is a different point. It is not relevant to any point > I have been making, and even if true would not diminish any point > I have made. The point I was responding to was one taht said that Jewish terrorism and Catholic terrorism wasn’t as important as Muslim terrorism because it only affects a small geographic area. If I posit that Muslims see American militarya ctivity as Christian military activity then why wouldn’t they be able to reach teh same conclusions about Christianity as a bloodthirsty religion as some have reached about the innate bloodthirstiness of Islam? > [@](#): > > Very briefly, however: If you are speaking of Afghanistan I would > say that American military activity has been a legitimate response > to attack on its soil. If you are speaking of Iraq I would say American > military activity was legitimate deposition of a regime which had > already started two wars, and although weakened was persisting > in defiant behavior. Both countries would be enjoying tranquility > were in not for terrorism IMO likely conducted for the most part by > religious Muslim extremists. Well, we’ll jsut have toa gree to disagree because while I agree that Afghanistan was a justified response to 9/11 I think Iraq was simply military adventurism and was entirely unjustified. > [@](#): > > I would say those claims are either mistaken, or irrelevant. Ibn seems to disagree. And it is not irrelevant because just as Zionists and Irish Republicans can use the language of religion to prop up their cause, so can terrorists use the language fo religion. > [@](#): > > The explanation you heard is incorrect. The very word “Zion” has always, > for 1000s of years, specifically referred to the pre-Diaspora Palestinian > Jewish homeland. I’ve had this discussion several times and I’ve asked, why Israel in Palestine? Why not in South America if the creation nfo a Jewish state was the purpose, then why did it have to be in palestine where you were surrounded by enemies. The answer was, no other location could draw the support of Jews around the world. > [@](#): > > I agree. What makes Islam such a threat is that so many non-Arab > Muslims are moved to commit murder over an issue affecting them in > no practical, material way. Their demented behavior is the result of > their religious belief. It is as though Christians were terrorizing Muslims > wherever they could find them because of the persecution of Christian > Sudanese. I think that Israel/Palestine is much more symbolically important than Christians in Sudan. > [@](#): > > That analogy is unsound because only eight only eight people have been > killed since 1973 by antiabortion Christian terrorism, with I think all but one > death occurring in the US, and no deaths since 2009. Compare that number > and geography to hundreds of thousand of victims of Muslim terror, with > the carnage showing no sign of abating. Well, let me clarify. I’'m not saying that abortion is turning Christians into terrorists wholesale, I am saying that it is radicalizing them. They are turning into teabaggers and republicans. They are starting to buy into whacky theories because they end up hanging out with racists, libertarians, rich people who don’t want to pay tacxes no matter what… Republicans. > [@](#): > > I have nowhere accused all Muslims if extremism. I think the moderates > are at a great diadvantage because they do not share the extemists’ > murderous ruthlessness. Its hard to tell the contexxt because I can’t link to the post youa re responding to so i don’t really know the context. You may not be accusing all muslims of extremism but a lot of people have. > [@](#): > > I do not know if any Muslims go that far. I think it is likely some do. Once again, I’m not really sure of the context but if they want to eliminate the requirement that Israel remain a jewish state then I’m not sure I see why that is offensive. > [@](#): > > Until the18th-19th centuries Jews were alien resident non-citizens > wherever they lived, a condition which had persisted for about well > over 1500 years. Our of necessity they learned how to speak the > languages of their home countries. At the same time they retained > uniquely Jewish linguistic and religious habits. So ethiopian Jews and Sephardic Jews and Ashkenazi Jews and Mizrahi Jews and Sammy Davis Jr. Jews are all one ethnicity? > [@](#): > > Over 90% of all Europeans speak languages belonging to the Indo-European > family. The Romance languages are one of the three largest surviving major > Indo-European subgroups, the other two being Germanic and Slavic. You are clipping the quotes to the point that I don’t know wtf the point is anymore and you are not clicking the “quote” button so I can’t go back and look without searching through the thread. > [@](#): > > Yes, if Zionism is taken to mean support for the creation and existence of the > modern Jewish state of Israel. Yeah, I don’t think that’s true. > [@](#): > > Of course I cannot be sure of the events of any alternate history scenario. > > Irgun terrorism was the moral equivalent of any other terror. However, it > would not have been an equalent practical threat to modern Islamic terror > merely by extending thier operations to the UK. Thay would have had to go > as far afield as Bali, India, Algeria, the US, etc etc etc. At taht point you are just sayign that there are more Muslims than jews in teh world. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/669 "2011-02-11T22:02:06Z")
Magellan01 wrote: > [@](#): > > Are you sucking on your hookah again? Do a Google search and tell me which seems more prevalent to you. And you know that list of cites of barbarism by Muslims I posted recently? I asked people to show me similar atrocities by other religions—Jews, Mormons, Quakers, Buddhists, etc.—and funny thing, no one ponied up. Here’s your chance, big guy. Do your thing. Don’t hold your breath. We have a bunch of ignorant skeptics here who think they know far more than they actually do. They fear the truth, and so therefore they avoid it like the plague. I have challenged them many times now to show me why so much violence is coming from Muslims and so little from all other religions and they cannot. Hell, they can’t even look at the religionofpeace website without gagging on their own fear of reality. There is no question that Islam is a “religion” of violence. One need only compare Jesus or Buddha to Mohammed to see the truth. One need only compare the verses in the Bible (where later peaceful phrases abrogate the violent earlier ones) with the ones in the Koran (where the reverse is the rule, with what little peaceful stuff there is in it). One need only look at the almost 17,000 deadly acts of terror committed in the name of Islam in the last 10 years, keeping in mind that the true number is far higher but remains unreported and compare that to the number of acts of violence from all other religions combined. See, those who are in denial about the reality of Islam are in denial due to fear. They’re scared shitless. Why? Because if they acknowledge the danger of Islam, then they have to confront it, and they fear that. It’s the same fear symptom we see with those who fear addressing the illegal alien issue. God forbid we actually ACKNOWLEDGE reality, because then we’d be bound to DEAL WITH reality. And they can’t do that. They’ll make nice dhimmis when Islam rolls over them. Notice how the deniers refuse to address evidence regardless of the source, but instead vilify and insult and mock. This si the same behavior we see when the Obama eligibility issue comes up. Always ignoramuses who have not spent an hour of their time researching it, and so they derisively call those who acknowledge the problem “birthers”. They do the same thing to those who address the illegal alien issue, calling them “anti-immigrant” or “racists”. And they use “bigot” to shut down anyone calling out the reality of Islam’s violence. They themselves have done no research at all on the issue, yet they shout down those of us who have, and even those experts who are quoted and who are widely acknowledged experts. These losers don’t want to hear the truth. They’re worthless, spineless human beings with no integrity and no intelligence. And they spew hate because deep down they know how ignorant and fearful they are. So they vilify those who expose the very things they fear. It’s amazing that despite attempts to debate this with at least a dozen people here, only 1 or 2 actually make an attempt at debating the issues and do not dismiss things off hand or post simply to insult and waste time. But yeah, that’s why the world is so fucked up. It’s filled with fucked up people like Elucidator, Villa, Tomndebb, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/670 "2011-02-11T22:02:40Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > I have already suggested historical explanantion for Turkey. > > I expect that differences elswhere are the result of the combination > of random statistical variation and historical causes I do nor know of. So where the facts comport with your view, it is because Islam is a violent religion and where they do not comport with yourn theory, there are historical factors at play that explain the difference. Random statistical variation should drop to a few percentage pioints one way or another when you are talking about sample sizes as large as the ones in those polls. You are basically explaining away all inconsistaency with your theory based on historical causes without acknowledgint that all this violence could have its roots in historical causes rather than some sort of religious mandate. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/671 "2011-02-11T22:04:44Z")
You know how the adults on the _Peanuts_ specials always sound like a muted trombone when they talk? It’s a lot like that with birthers, except it sounds like wet, spluttering flatulence. > [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > So you’re accusing me of being a birther, and I’ll bet you haven’t done two minutes of research into the eligibility debate. Another unworthy moron. If you have a pair, start a “birther” thread and I’ll eat you alive in it. Tempting as the prospect of being “eaten alive” by you is, I believe I have in fact heard all of the (thoroughly debunked) birther arguments. If you feel you have something groundbreaking that proves what no one else has yet been able to prove, I encourage you to start your own thread. Until then, I feel comfortable assuming you are a crackpot bigot who has bought into convoluted fantasies of the illegitimacy of our current President who, wouldn’t you know it, just _happens_ to be black. If your entire argument hinges on the “long form” horseshit, though, you might not want to bother, lest you find yourself the one eaten alive. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/672 "2011-02-11T22:20:30Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > “Birther” is an inaccurate slur and is used in a similar manner to the word “racist”. Those using it are essentially admitting they’re too stupid to debate the facts of the issue and merely want to shut down the discussion. It doesn’t seem inaccurate. You are contesting whether Obama was born in Hawaii like he says. You need a conspiracy of pretty monumental proportions to reach the conclusion (or create the doubt) that you have. That is pretty much the defiition of a birther. > [@](#): > > So you’re accusing me of being a birther, and I’ll bet you haven’t done two minutes of research into the eligibility debate. Another unworthy moron. If you have a pair, start a “birther” thread and I’ll eat you alive in it. You must be new here. We get a birther floating through here every couple of months. At first theya re soooo convinced that they are right and they have truth that the rest of the world is unaware of until they are confronted with the fact taht everything they believe is based on a lie or requires a conspiracy of monumental proportions. > [@](#): > > Oh, so when all those terrorists scream “Allahu akbar” while committing their atrocities, it’s wrong to blame Islam? :rolleyes: Yes that’s right. Just like its wrong to blame Christianity for people who shoot abortionists. > [@](#): > > Wow, you’re a real scumbag to dminish the 9/11 attacks. Yeah? Who did you know that was in the twin towers on 9/11? I think you are a scumbag to prop up the corpses of people you could care less about and use them as an excuse to hate a billion muslims around the world. 9/11 isn’t some fucking fetish. > [@](#): > > Yeah, like when Undercover Muslim President Obama’s chief of staff warned never to let a crisis go to waste, and Obama scared everyone by claiming if we needed to approve the ridiculous bail-outs he wanted or God forbid we’d see unemployment go above 8%. Of course, it passed, and unemployment hovered closer to 10%. You mean like that kinda fear mongering? :rolleyes: I don’t know how to break it to you but TARP was passed under Bush. The first stimulus package was passed under Bush. The undercover Muslim president’s chief of staff was a Jew. Obama never said anything about eunemployment at 8%. It was Christina Romer and it had NOTHING to do with Tarp or any other bailout. It was directed at the second stimulus package and by the time Obama signed THAT package, unemployment was ALREADY above 8%. Try to get your facts straight, it will do wonders for your credibility. When you show up as a new poster and start and post stuff that is based on all sorts of erroneous underlying facts it really detracts from anyone’s ability to take you seriously. Its not a popularity contest but credibility is earned dude. Just ask Finn Again, noone likes him but he is somewhat credible. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/673 "2011-02-11T22:25:18Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Magellan01 wrote:… > > Don’t hold your breath. We have a bunch of ignorant skeptics here who think they know far more than they actually do. They fear the truth, and so therefore they avoid it like the plague… > > Notice how the deniers refuse to address evidence regardless of the source, but instead vilify and insult and mock. This si the same behavior we see when the Obama eligibility issue comes up. Always ignoramuses who have not spent an hour of their time researching it, and so they derisively call those who acknowledge the problem “birthers”. GRATZ MAGELLAN!!! You’re hanging out with Birthers now. I hear they have cookies. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/674 "2011-02-11T22:29:02Z")
Damuri wrote: > [@](#): > > I think a lot of your result has to do with concentrating your analysis on Islamic theocracies or near theocracies. If you broadened your query to majority muslim states, I think you might be abel to find a decent country in there somewhere. So name one. Go for it! And actually, the main point I was making is that Islam causes problems wherever it gains power. So I’m mainly talking about Islamic states, ie Iran, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. True Islamic states are the worst when it comes to lack of freedom, peace, and tolerance. States with Islam as the official state religion but not the law of the land (ie Kuwait, Libya, Sudan) are still bad. And states with merely a Muslim majority like Mali or Bosnia or Indonesia are still pretty bad as well. I cannot find an Islamic nation that enjoys freedom, peace, and tolerance. And even those who on the surface seem to come close, are only kept in check by a secular government, a police state, like Egypt, where Islamic insanity runs high and where some very major terrorist groups are spawned. > [@](#): > > I could just as easily ask you to show me a Jewish state that isn’t rife with human rights abuses, intolerance, violence and lack of freedom. Oh, I don’t know…Israel? :rolleyes: They tolerate the Muslim monsters and even allow them to vote and to hold positions in government. They allow Muslims to import Korans and to proselytize for Islam. They give the Muslims more freedom than they deserve. The same is not true in Saudi Arabia or Iran, it’s the reverse. Damuri wrote: > [@](#): > > [Religious terrorism - Wikipedia](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_terrorism) > > There is at least some evidence taht terrorism (even terrorism by brown people) is motivated by geo-political conditions rather than ululating allah worship. Oh dear lord, not a Wiki page! Wow, what profound research you do! How about I rebut Robert Pape (quoted in that Wiki crap) by saying that he claims much of the suicide bombing is politically motivated as opposed to religiously motivated. He’s wrong. He fails to understand that in Islam, religion and politics are one and the same. If a suicide bomber tries blowing up an Israeli army base, that’s not political. It’s religious. The goal may be to take down Israel, which some may say is political. However, one must consider that the suicide bomber is motivated by the Koran to do so, with its demands to kill Jews. The fact that the suicide bomber squeals “Allahu akbar” as he commits his act of terror and the fact that he’s looking forward to 72 virgins (all prepubescent no doubt! :rolleyes: ) in the hell known as Islamic heaven shows us it is a religious attack. People are motivated by fear. They simply fear addressing the truth. They fear the implication should they admit Islam is evil. So they do their best to skirt the issue and find blame elsewhere. > [@](#): > > Do you really think that Palestinian strap on explosive vests because Allah told them to? You can’t see any other factor that might cause the suicide bombings in Israel? Well, what the hell do YOU think it means when they video tape themselves talking about how they’re gonna enjoy their 72 virgins in heaven (all virgins since they’re all 9 years old, if that!), quoting the Koran, and screeching “Allahu akbar”? Do you think maybe Islam has something to do with it? DUH! Dumbass. :rolleyes: Funny, I’ve NEVER seen tape of a suicide bomber saying “Well, you know, I hate how I have to pay such high taxes, and I hate rich people and I hate being poor and I really, really am pissed off because I can’t afford a new Android phone on my pathetic salary peddling stale falafel in the dusty desert.” No, it’s always Islam motivating them. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/675 "2011-02-11T22:31:43Z")
Vinyl Turnip babbled: > [@](#): > > Tempting as the prospect of being “eaten alive” by you is, I believe I have in fact heard all of the (thoroughly debunked) birther arguments. If you feel you have something groundbreaking that proves what no one else has yet been able to prove, I encourage you to start your own thread. Until then, I feel comfortable assuming you are a crackpot bigot who has bought into convoluted fantasies of the illegitimacy of our current President who, wouldn’t you know it, just _happens_ to be black. > > If your entire argument hinges on the “long form” horseshit, though, you might not want to bother, lest you find yourself the one eaten alive. Oh, it hinges on far more than that. But you’re clearly a dismissive liberal who isn’t interested in hearing the truth, so I won’t waste my time. Unless of course you put forth some effort yourself first, and I’ll then shoot down all your “proof” that Obama is natural born. And you can forget the typical liberal knee-jerk reaction to bring race into it. I’d have voted for Alan Keyes in a heartbeat, and he’s far “blacker” than Obama, so your not-so-subtly veiled accusation holds no water. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/676 "2011-02-11T22:41:43Z")
It wasn’t intended to be veiled. If you insist on buying into birther arguments after they’ve been debunked, in all likelihood you’re a crackpot bigot, despite some of your best friends being Alan Keyes. You have managed to make **magellan01** look reasonable by comparison, though, which is no mean feat. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/677 "2011-02-11T22:43:23Z")
Damuri wrote: > [@](#): > > It doesn’t seem inaccurate. You are contesting whether Obama was born in Hawaii like he says. You need a conspiracy of pretty monumental proportions to reach the conclusion (or create the doubt) that you have. That is pretty much the defiition of a birther. So let me ask you, how much research have you done on the matter? Seriously. What have you researched and how? > [@](#): > > You must be new here. We get a birther floating through here every couple of months. At first theya re soooo convinced that they are right and they have truth that the rest of the world is unaware of until they are confronted with the fact taht everything they believe is based on a lie or requires a conspiracy of monumental proportions. And of course, there can never be a conspiracy of monumental proportions, because you know, that never happens! :rolleyes: It’s very simple. Are you saying Obama is a natural born citizen? Apparently you are, since only those who believe that use the derisive “birther” term. Since you must believe it, just give me proof he was natural born. It’s that easy. I warn you, don’t believe that the falsified form posted on [factcheck.org](http://factcheck.org) is sufficient, or that they auto-generated Hawaiian newspaper announcement constitutes “proof”. I’ll tear that down in a heartbeat. > [@](#): > > Obama never said anything about eunemployment at 8%. It was Christina Romer and it had NOTHING to do with Tarp or any other bailout. It was directed at the second stimulus package and by the time Obama signed THAT package, unemployment was ALREADY above 8%. I don’t know where you’ve been for the last 2 years, but Obama and his “financial team” insisted that if we don’t pass the Stimulus Package, unemployment would go above 8%. When it passed and the unemployment rate hit near 10%, he backpeddled and said it was worse than we thought. Maybe you need to get with reality. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/678 "2011-02-11T22:45:51Z")
Oh, and by “Obama” I mean he and his team. Biden was the actual person to say “we got it wrong it was worse than we thought blah blah blah”. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/679 "2011-02-11T22:52:22Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > It’s very simple. Are you saying Obama is a natural born citizen? Apparently you are, since only those who believe that use the derisive “birther” term. Since you must believe it, just give me proof he was natural born. It’s that easy. No, really. My proof is that Obama is President of the United States of America. If he wasn’t a natural born citizen, he couldn’t be. Now, you clearly think you can prove otherwise. So put your proof together, and do something useful with it. Don’t post it on line. Bring suit. Show us you even have sufficient proof to get past a dismissal motion. Or would you rather continue trying to demonstrate your manhood through message board posts? ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 11, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/680 "2011-02-11T22:54:06Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > I warn you, don’t believe that the falsified form posted on [factcheck.org](http://factcheck.org) is sufficient, or that they auto-generated Hawaiian newspaper announcement constitutes “proof”. I’ll tear that down in a heartbeat. In a way, I’m disappointed. I’d hoped you actually did have some novel argument to add to the crackpot pantheon. But no, all you’ve got is the fundamental bag-of-hammers birther argument: that all the evidence is forged. A completely unsupported claim, and conveniently, one that’s impossible to satisfactorily refute. Oh well. Hopes were meant to be dashed, I suppose. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=33) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=35)