# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/701 "2011-02-12T00:04:40Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > …Elucidator whines: > > Well, Elucidator, until you get off your lazy ass and do some work of your own, I’m not gonna waste time with you. See, I know your kind. You demand someone put forth the effort and after they do you simply dismiss their sources regardless of how reputable. Not gonna waste my time playing that game with someone who’s clearly not interested in discussing the facts. When you show you can step up the the plate, I certainly will. > You tell me. Define “subjective”. :rolleyes: > > See, two can play the evasion game. … At the moment, you are playing with yourself. Here’s how this works, Sparky. If you make a positive assertion here on the SDMB, you may reasonably expect to be required to back it up with some citation and/or proof. Hence the joke hereabouts: “My post is my cite”. Which is intended as a form of mockery for someone who expects to have his/her authority stand unchallenged. This is not a breaking of rules, simply a form of mutual respect we hold valuable. It is assumed that you would not make a positive assertion without substantiation. Anything less is an admission of emptiness, confessing that you are as you appear to be, that is, blowing smoke out your ass. It is further considered weak as shit to try to turn the tables when asked for a cite by demanding that someone prove you wrong, or let your bald assertion stand as fact. The burden of proof rests with whomever makes the assertion, in this case, you. Or, you can remain as you are, an object of universal scorn and derision. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/702 "2011-02-12T00:12:13Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > …[WorldNetDaily](http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=98546) > > Don’t skirt the issue with a pathetic and typical “oh, I don’t acknowledge that right wing website”. That’s a pussy cop-out. Go refute the facts or admit that you’re a pussy who’s afraid of the truth. He did it! He did it! He cited _World Net Daily_! _AH ha ha ha ha ha ha!_ What a maroon! ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/703 "2011-02-12T00:16:54Z")
Elucidator babbled: > [@](#): > > He did it! He did it! He cited _World Net Daily_! > > _AH ha ha ha ha ha ha!_ > > What a maroon! See, just as I predicted. You’re a simpleton. If what they have researched is wrong, show us proof it is wrong. Put up or shut up. But no, you can’t do that. We all see you’re full of shit. It’s a clear pattern that when I post references of cite facts, you ignore them or dismiss them. So you’re just a worthless fuck who is afraid of true debate. You can hide behind all the evasive tactics you like, it doesn’t change what you are. Between you and me, I am the only one posting actual citations, sources and proofs. You offer only derisive, dismissive insults. Which tells us you’re simply not intelligent enough to engage in debate. I’ll ignore you until you can act like an adult and actually debate the issue. Until then you are dismissed for being an idiot and a coward. ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/704 "2011-02-12T00:17:04Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Villa wrote: That wasn’t Villa who wrote that. I was the one who did it. I’m sorry if it’s humiliating to have a person of Muslim descent prove you wrong. > [@](#): > > The fact? Really, that’s a “fact”? So where is his true, long form birth certificate? Why is it that no hospital in Hawaii will confirm he was born there? Why is is that relatives of his insist he was born in Kenya? I need to see some proof, not just a doctored up scan of a certification of live birth that proves nothing as it cold easily be gotten by non-citizens. Yes, it’s a fact. Anderson Cooper made this same point when interviewing this birther. You may not like watching it because Anderson Cooper really does an excellent job of dismantling the man’s arguments and making him look ridiculous. [http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/anderson\_cooper\_shellacks\_texas\_birther\_with\_torre.php](http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/11/anderson_cooper_shellacks_texas_birther_with_torre.php) > [@](#): > > In order to be natural born, either both his parents had to be legal citizens (which his father was not) or, barring that, the other parent (in this case his mother) had to have resided in the USA for at least 10 years, at lest 5 of which had to have been after the age of 16. Thus, she needed to be at least 21 years of age when she gave birth to Obama, and in reality she was only 18. Thus, according to law, she could not confer citizenship. Therefore he cannot be natural born. I’m sorry, but that’s not true. Are you actually under the impression that if a 19 or 20-year-old American gave birth to a child in Canada the child wouldn’t be a US citizen? Sorry dude, you’re wrong. Like I said, I was born in Tehran to an American mother and an Iranian father and I’m a natural-born US citizen. So was a friend of mine born in Mexico to an 18-year-old American mother and a Mexican national father. Look, you’re obviously extremely upset that the US has a black man as President and you’re having a hard time adjusting. Don’t worry, life goes on. Moreover, you can seek professional help for it and their are counselors that you can see. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/705 "2011-02-12T00:23:33Z")
Ibn Warraq wrote: > [@](#): > > Yes, it’s a fact. Anderson Cooper made this same point when interviewing this birther. You may not like watching it because Anderson Cooper really does an excellent job of dismantling the man’s arguments and making him look ridiculous. Anderson Cooper? ANDERSON COOPER? The hyper-liberal androgyne political hack? :smack: LMFAO!!! Dude, _give it up_! He cites the same disproven bullshit all Obama sycophants cite…“Oh, that’s the certificate Hawaii sends out!” Gimme a break! You need to do far better than post an ANDERSON COOPER (ROTFLMAO!) video to back your silly claims! Dear God, I need to go excuse myself! I’m laughing so hard I can barely type! ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! ROTFLMFAO!!! ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/706 "2011-02-12T00:25:04Z")
Oh, and when someone brings the race card into it: > [@](#): > > Look, you’re obviously extremely upset that the US has a black man as President and you’re having a hard time adjusting. Don’t worry, life goes on. They automatically lose the argument. Sorry, that’s the rule. ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! OMFG ROTFLMAO!!! ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/707 "2011-02-12T00:28:28Z")
> [@samclem](#): > > What is an “auto-generated” Hawaiian newspaper announcement? > [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Samclem wrote: > > If you don’t know how birth announcements were auto-generated back then, you haven’t done the research and are therefore too ignorant for me to condescend to speak to you. . Let me be more specific, and I would hope you could be less cryptic. Are you saying that the announcement in the paper from that date was somehow not _real_? That it was done at a later time? If I"ve misread your comment, could you be more specific? Or, am I just wasting my unworthy time. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/708 "2011-02-12T00:31:52Z")
So you’re saying you would be convinced by the release of the so-called “long form” certificate, provided by the same people you have concluded engaged in a massive conspiracy to concoct fraudulent documents in support of an illegitimate President? Step outside yourself for just a moment, if you can, and perhaps you will understand the reluctance to bend over backwards to appease birther nuttery. It’s a barrel without a bottom. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/709 "2011-02-12T00:34:25Z")
Samclem wrote: > [@](#): > > Are you saying that the announcement in the paper from that date was somehow not _real_? That it was done at a later time? No. Let me explain. Anyone could easily get a COLB from Hawaii without having been born there. Happened all the time. Up until this issue flared up, you could not use a COLB (Certification of live birth, the short form document allegedly “proving” Obama was born here) to get a drivers license, a passport, or a gun card. It was considered not to be valid enough even for that. You would need an actual, long-form certificate of live birth that lists the hospital, the doctor’s name, etc. Obama has never produced that document and in fact has spent several million dollars to suppress lawsuits demanding that he do so. In Hawaii back then, whenever a COLB was issued, the Dept. of Health automatically generated a record of a birth and sent it to the newspapers. It was an automated process. Anyone could get a COLB even if they were born overseas, and by doing so would get their name in the paper. It means nothing. If a COLB was not considered sufficient documentation to obtain a passport, a driver’s license or a gun card, then it surely is insufficient to prove the eligibility of the office of president! ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/710 "2011-02-12T00:35:12Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Ibn Warraq wrote: > > Anderson Cooper? ANDERSON COOPER? The hyper-liberal androgyne political hack? :smack: > > LMFAO!!! > > Dude, _give it up_! He cites the same disproven bullshit all Obama sycophants cite…“Oh, that’s the certificate Hawaii sends out!” > > Gimme a break! > > You need to do far better than post an ANDERSON COOPER (ROTFLMAO!) video to back your silly claims! > > Dear God, I need to go excuse myself! I’m laughing so hard I can barely type! > > ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! ROTFLMFAO!!! What does Anderson Cooper say that has been disproven? State Representative Berman, the birther he was speaking to wound up failing to disprove any of Cooper’s statements and the video ended with him practically in tears. Also, I notice you decided to back down from your silly claim that the children of American mothers aren’t natural born US citizens or at least you seem to have since you didn’t address my rebuttals. Sorry to disappoint you, but American teenagers do give birth outside of the US and the children are considered American citizens. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/711 "2011-02-12T00:36:51Z")
Turnipbrain wrote: > [@](#): > > So you’re saying you would be convinced by the release of the so-called “long form” certificate As long as we get to examine it for authenicity, yes. No such long form birth certificate has ever been released, and there are conflicting claims…certain people claim they saw the actual birth certificate in 2009 or 2010, then the Hawaii Dept. of Health claims all paper documents were destroyed in 2001. Where there is smoke, there is fire, and around this issue the plume of smoke is like that of a volcanic eruption. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/712 "2011-02-12T00:38:53Z")
And who is “we”? You and Orly Taitz? ---
**Author:** ![Ibn\_Warraq](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e19b73/32.png) [@Ibn\_Warraq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ibn_Warraq)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/713 "2011-02-12T00:39:51Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Anyone could easily get a COLB from Hawaii without having been born there. Happened all the time. Up until this issue flared up, you could not use a COLB (Certification of live birth, the short form document allegedly “proving” Obama was born here) to get a drivers license, a passport, or a gun card. That’s incorrect. As CNN has pointed out the COLB is what the State of Hawaii sends out to citizens when they request a copy of their birth certificate and the US State Department accepts it for the purpose of issuing passports. > [@](#): > > ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! > > OMFG ROTFLMAO!!! So basically you think it’s ridiculous to reject _World Nut Daily_ as a source but think that it’s also ridiculous to use CNN as one. Is that correct? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/714 "2011-02-12T00:47:52Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > No. Let me explain. Anyone could easily get a COLB from Hawaii without having been born there. Happened all the time. No, it didn’t. I will be generous, and suggest you have been misinformed. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/715 "2011-02-12T00:51:44Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Samclem wrote: > > No. Let me explain. Anyone could easily get a COLB from Hawaii without having been born there. Happened all the time. Up until this issue flared up, you could not use a COLB (Certification of live birth, the short form document allegedly “proving” Obama was born here) to get a drivers license, a passport, or a gun card. It was considered not to be valid enough even for that. You would need an actual, long-form certificate of live birth that lists the hospital, the doctor’s name, etc. Obama has never produced that document and in fact has spent several million dollars to suppress lawsuits demanding that he do so. > > In Hawaii back then, whenever a COLB was issued, the Dept. of Health automatically generated a record of a birth and sent it to the newspapers. It was an automated process. Anyone could get a COLB even if they were born overseas, and by doing so would get their name in the paper. It means nothing. > > If a COLB was not considered sufficient documentation to obtain a passport, a driver’s license or a gun card, then it surely is insufficient to prove the eligibility of the office of president! Cite, please ? Not a modern, Birther cite mind you. I’d really like any sort of federal or State paper from that era that basically tells fed/state clerks: “don’t consider Hawaii certificates of birth as anything else than toilet paper, it’s so easy to get one”. ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/716 "2011-02-12T00:54:23Z")
He cited ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! ROTFLMAO!!! What a stupid sheeple! ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! ROTFLMAO!!! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/717 "2011-02-12T00:55:21Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > He cited ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! ROTFLMAO!!! > > What a stupid sheeple! > > ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! ROTFLMAO!!! You said sheeple? SHEEPLE?! ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/718 "2011-02-12T00:57:30Z")
Here morons, here is the quote from the Hawaiian website before they scrubbed parts of it: > [@](#): > > “The Certification of Live Birth is a legal document, but it is TOTALLY INADEQUATE when it comes to proving an individual was born in Hawaii." The Hawaii Department of Homelands, which administers programs to encourage property ownership for native Hawaiians states the following on its website: > [@](#): > > “In order to process your application, DHHL utilizes information that is found ONLY on the original Certificate of Live Birth, which is either black or green. This is a more complete record of your birth than the Certification of Live Birth(a computer-generated printout). Submitting the original Certificate of Live Birth will save you time and money since the computer-generated Certification requires additional verification by DHHL.“ ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! Mr. Androgyne! ROTFLMFAO!!! HE actually cited ANDERSON FUCKING COOPER! OMFG LMAO! ---
**Author:** ![Champion-of-Truth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecccb3/32.png) [@Champion-of-Truth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Champion-of-Truth)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/719 "2011-02-12T00:58:37Z")
Kobal 2 wrote: > [@](#): > > Cite, please ? Not a modern, Birther cite mind you. I’d really like any sort of federal or State paper from that era that basically tells fed/state clerks: “don’t consider Hawaii certificates of birth as anything else than toilet paper, it’s so easy to get one”. Done. Now shut the fuck up and go away, moron. LMAO! ANDERSON COOPER! Can you believe that shit? LMAO! ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 12, 2011, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/720 "2011-02-12T01:01:17Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Here morons, here is the quote from the Hawaiian website before they scrubbed parts of it: No link? You made that up. Here is a quote from Department of Hopeless Losers: > [@](#): > > \*\*Champion-of-Truth \*\*is TOTALLY INADEQUATE when it comes to proving anything about anything. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=37)