# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 52
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1021 "2011-02-16T02:50:22Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, Starving Artist at least implied it with his whining about how “liberals” allegedly “defend Islam” regardless of Muslim atrocities, while allegedly “castigating Christianity” based on much more minor oppression on the part of Christians. > > It seemed potentially worth while to clarify to him that no, liberals do not “defend Islam” in the sense of condoning Muslim atrocities. Rather, we just draw the line at “castigating” Islam in toto for atrocities in specific Muslim societies. > > [snip] > > So I’m not really buying Starving Artist’s victim act about how Christians are so unfairly maligned while Muslims get such a free pass. Yeah, some loonylefts around here are irrationally rabid about the alleged evils of Christianity, but on the whole Christianity is much better understood and much more deferentially treated in our society than Islam is, even among liberals. _“Whining?” “Victim act?” “Christians?”_ Bullshit! In the first place it isn’t whining but a simple statement of fact, and in the second place posters to this board engage in a veritable orgy of broad brush generalizations about not only Christians but conseratives and Tea Partiers in general. So knock it off with the dishonest accusations of victimhood and trying to make this an issue of Christian vs. Muslim. The issue is, as is often the case, liberal hypocrisy. There is a reason why “Do as I say; not as I do” has become stereotypical of liberals and not conservatives, and its that well known liberal hypocrisy that is at the root of that stereotype. If you’re gonna make broad brush generalizations and condemnations of people on the other side of the aisle politically, you have no right to insist your opponents focus down to only individual miscreants when it comes to the behavior of people on your own side of the aisle. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1022 "2011-02-16T02:56:38Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > There is a reason why “Do as I say; not as I do” has become stereotypical of liberals and not conservatives,… Does this stereotype exist outside of your head? > [@](#): > > … and its that well known liberal hypocrisy that is at the root of that stereotype. Well known? By whom? You seem to fall back on the “common knowledge” fallacy whenever you get boxed into a corner. It really makes you look pathetic, you know. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1023 "2011-02-16T03:00:39Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > What, you’re not trying to imply that he’s wrong he’d be wrong in doing so, are you? That’s just crazy talk. Not wrong, so much as… unwise. \ ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1024 "2011-02-16T03:06:15Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t have a specific quote I can point to, but I’m not aware that **Starving Artist** has ever observed any sort of social injustice or criminal trend that he wasn’t more than happy to pin on liberals as a set. As opposed, I suppose, to all the reasonable and balanced liberal discussion that goes on around here regarding conservatives? You could take every post I’ve made to this board and it wouldn’t offset a week’s worth of conservative-bashing around here. Sheesh! Talk about whining! And besides, there has always been social injustice and crime. It’s just that under liberalism they’ve balooned out of control. The fiction that I think the 50’s were paradise is a liberal deceit. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1025 "2011-02-16T03:18:01Z")
> [@yours truly](#): > > I don’t have a specific quote I can point to, but I’m not aware that Starving Artist has ever observed any sort of social injustice or criminal trend that he wasn’t more than happy to pin on liberals as a set. > [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > As opposed, I suppose, to all the reasonable and balanced liberal discussion that goes on around here regarding conservatives? You could take every post I’ve made to this board and it wouldn’t offset a week’s worth of conservative-bashing around here. Thus illustrating my point precisely. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1026 "2011-02-16T03:25:24Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I don’t have a specific quote I can point to, but I’m not aware that **Starving Artist** has ever observed any sort of social injustice or criminal trend that he wasn’t more than happy to pin on liberals as a set. As opposed, I suppose, to all the reasonable and balanced liberal discussion that goes on around here regarding conservatives? You could take every post I’ve made to this board and it wouldn’t offset a week’s worth of conservative-bashing around here. Sheesh! Talk about whining! And besides, there has always been social injustice and crime. It’s just that under liberalism they’ve balooned out of control. The fiction that I think the 50’s were paradise is a liberal deceit. > [@Fear Itself](#): > > You seem to fall back on the “common knowledge” fallacy whenever you get boxed into a corner. You really believe your own bullshit you make silly statements like this? Or perhaps you’d like to show just where it was that I was “boxed into a corner?” > [@Fear Itself](#): > > It really makes you look pathetic, you know. Oh, I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1027 "2011-02-16T03:29:28Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Thus illustrating my point precisely. So which attribute is it that you assigning to the board, social injustice or criminality? 😃 Because, you know, those are the issues you brought up and which the post of mine that you quoted was referring to. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1028 "2011-02-16T03:32:25Z")
Sorry for the partial double post a couple of posts up. We had unexpected company a few minutes ago and I forgot I was in the middle of an edit at the time. ---
**Author:** ![villa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/bc79bd/32.png) [@villa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/villa)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1029 "2011-02-16T03:39:03Z")
> [@margin](#): > > You know, when the topic of rape comes up, somebody always brings up false accusations. Always. Especially here on the Dope. And yet the evidence is actually that vast numbers of rapists go free and rape with utter impunity. [http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/](http://yesmeansyesblog.wordpress.com/2009/11/12/meet-the-predators/) Ihope that link worked. It’s to a study done with _actual_ rapists, who admitted to committing acts which met the legal definition of rape—as long as you didn’t actually use the word rape. Which is a very interesting little defensive manuever. Other studies both in Great Britain and here in the US point to the fact that conviction rates for rape are dismal, so that anybody who commits rape has about a 90% chance of getting away with it. [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/09/cbsnews\_investigates/main5590118.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/11/09/cbsnews_investigates/main5590118.shtml) That article cites a mere 25% arrest rate for rape, not conviction, something I notice that people sometimes cite in place of conviction rates. Yet someone is always absolutely possessed by the fear that somewhere, some guy, or whatever type, might get nailed for it, and not only that, for not-rape. And as Magellan aptly demonstrates, while he’s incensed by the thought of a Muslim guy committing rape, he’s indifferent to the way his conservative brethren treat actual rape victims. > > Yet here we are again, discussing not the real and horrible injustice to women, but the _possibility_ or a vanishingly rare injustice to men. Why? Even Magellan’s story is the same. Hes interested solely in making digs against Muslims, as if theyre all rapists of fourteen-year-old girls. And yet heres a story with some small shade of the horror: [http://ca.jezebel.com/5760976/women-sue-military-for-enabling-their-rapists](http://ca.jezebel.com/5760976/women-sue-military-for-enabling-their-rapists) The story’s been covered elsewhere, but it’s the same: promises of justice, yet the fact that the rapists are our guys seems to shut people up. Except, if you actually read what I said, I didn’t mention false accusations. I have repeatedly noted exactly what you have said about rape victims and the specter of false accusations. In the incident I mentioned, a crime has been committed. Under current legal insanity, if the person is charged (where discretion does exist), the judge may well have no discretion to set what the correct penalty is. And I think that is absolutely insane. I am no supporter of **Magellan**. I don’t see how pointing out his legal errors is taken by you as support for him. You might actually try to read what people are saying before assuming they are opposed to your viewpoint and seeking to lecture them. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1030 "2011-02-16T03:42:08Z")
> [@](#): > > …We had unexpected company a few minutes ago and I forgot I was in the middle of an edit at the time. Make 'em show you the warrant first. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1031 "2011-02-16T03:47:39Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So which attribute is it that you assigning to the board, social injustice or criminality? 😃 I would generally classify the denunciation of a large, heterogenous group, based on the actions of a subset of individuals within that group, as a species of social injustice. It is, absolutely, something that happens a lot on this board in relation to conservatives. It is also something that you do relentlessly to liberals. What is mildly depressing is that you seem to think, by behaving in the same manner, you are creating a distinction between you and the people you so revile. I have mentioned before on these boards that the central division in this world is not liberal versus conservative, Christian versus Muslim, atheist versus believer, Mac versus PC, or Coke versus Pepsi. It’s assholes versus decent people. And you’re an asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1032 "2011-02-16T04:00:46Z")
I give what I get, chum. If you don’t stand up to assholes and give it right back to 'em, they’ll run you over. And now perhaps you’d care to list the number of times you’ve explained your little philosophy to any liberals around here and called them assholes for the way they behave toward conservatives. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1033 "2011-02-16T04:08:50Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I give what I get, chum. If you don’t stand up to assholes and give it right back to 'em, they’ll run you over. Right. Like I said, in your world view, anything bad that happens is the fault of a liberal. Even your own personal character defects - it’s not your fault you’re an asshole, it’s all those nasty liberals who started it. > [@](#): > > And now, perhaps you’d care to list the number of times you’ve explained your little philosophy to any liberals around here and called assholes for the way they behave toward conservatives. Do you want links, or just a list of names? ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1034 "2011-02-16T04:28:29Z")
And besides, believe it or not, I don’t revile very many of the posters here. Most of what I revile is their thinking and that of their recent predesessors. There aren’t but four or five posters here who I genuinely dislike as people. But being a conservative in good standing I can make a distinction between bad thinking and bad people. Something many liberals are disinclined to do. I’m sure you’re familiar with the well-known phrase (Hi, **FI**! ;)), “Conservatives think liberals have bad ideas; liberals think conservatives are bad people.” This attitude is highly typical of the board’s liberal posters. (Or the ones who post on political issues anyway.) Take for example the health care debate. Conservatives say they don’t want it because it creates too much government control, it will be more rather than less expensive, 85% of the population is happy with their health care already, etc. And how do liberals respond? “Conservatives only care about themselves.” “Conservatives WANT to see people dying in the streets for lack of health care.” “Conservatives are greedy assholes. They got theirs so fuck everybody else.” Etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad barfium. So then who do you decide to jump in and deride as an asshole? Why, me of course. Why don’t you go lecture posters like **Lobohan** who is seemingly incapable of posting disagreement without calling the other poster a “moron” or some veriation thereof? Why don’t you go lecture mhendo, who can’t seem to answer even the most innocuous post by a newbie poster without being insulting in the process? Is it because he already acknowledges his assholism, proudly stating as he has in the past that he owns it? Nope, it’s me who’s the asshole. Curious that I happen to be a conservative too, isn’t it? And on preview: > [@Miller](#): > > Do you want links, or just a list of names? Names will do, provided you can attest that you scolded them with the same little philosophical lecture you used on me. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1035 "2011-02-16T04:34:48Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > I give what I get, chum. If you don’t stand up to assholes and give it right back to 'em, they’ll run you over. Which accounts for the treadmarks on your cardigan. ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1036 "2011-02-16T04:43:26Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Right. Like I said, in your world view, anything bad that happens is the fault of a liberal. Even your own personal character defects - it’s not your fault you’re an asshole, it’s all those nasty liberals who started it. They did. Once upon a time I tried being polite and arguing in good faith, and got exactly nowhere with it. Over time I even got occasional compliments for my politeness and civility in the face of angry, insulting pile-ons. You yourself once referred to me as “one of the good ones.” But finally I got tired of pissing in the wind and decided to give as good as I get. It’s not my fault that the board is populated by aggressively abusive assholes, and it’s certainly not my fault that they coincidentally happen to be liberals. I can honestly say that no one…absolutely not one person that I know in off-board life…thinks I’m an asshole. In fact, most would either be shocked and/or laugh at the accusation. So, yeah, it is the board’s liberal assholes who are responsible for the way I act. Get them to behave civilly toward me despite the fact that I’m a conservative and you’ll see me behave civilly toward them despite the fact that they are liberals. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1037 "2011-02-16T04:48:29Z")
> [@Starving Artist](#): > > Take for example the health care debate. Conservatives say they don’t want it because it creates too much government control, it will be more rather than less expensive, 85% of the population is happy with their health care already, etc. This clumsy attempt to imitate a reasoned argument conveniently leaves out the many, many conservatives who say they don’t want healthcare reform because [it’s a socialist scheme, it’s a plot of Marxist revolutionaries, it’s a sign of our forsaking God as a nation,](http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/38531/) [it’s draining from us our will and reason, it’s going to kill our parents and grandparents, it’s the beginning of a long, black [:eek:] road, it’s a re-crucifixion of God, it’s a stench of evil emanating from the scurrilous mouths of elected representatives](http://www.republikid.com/2010/03/obamacaresocialism-arrives-in-america.html)… …Etc., etc. So please, **Starving Artist** , spare us the melodramatic whiny laments about how conservatives in general are just sensible rational people who are being unfairly demonized by liberals in general for happening to have a different opinion. The fact is that many people from both sides of the political spectrum demonize their opponents and try to paint them as bad people rather than just supporters of bad ideas. Conservatives on average are at least as prone to indulge in that kind of attack tactic as anyone else. Your conservative martyr act, suggesting that it’s only the liberals who gratuitously bash their opponents in that way, isn’t fooling anybody. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1038 "2011-02-16T04:50:43Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s not my fault that the board is populated by aggressively abusive assholes Well, one of them is your fault. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1039 "2011-02-16T04:52:23Z")
> [@Larry\_Borgia](#): > > People, rape month was last month. This is birther month. Wait, if January is rape month shouldn’t birther month be, like, October? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Starving\_Artist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/aeb1de/32.png) [@Starving\_Artist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starving_Artist)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1040 "2011-02-16T04:56:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This clumsy attempt to imitate a reasoned argument conveniently leaves out the many, many conservatives who say they don’t want healthcare reform because [it’s a socialist scheme, it’s a plot of Marxist revolutionaries, it’s a sign of our forsaking God as a nation,](http://www.glennbeck.com/content/articles/article/198/38531/) [it’s draining from us our will and reason, it’s going to kill our parents and grandparents, it’s the beginning of a long, black [:eek:] road, it’s a re-crucifixion of God, it’s a stench of evil emanating from the scurrilous mouths of elected representatives](http://www.republikid.com/2010/03/obamacaresocialism-arrives-in-america.html)… > > …Etc., etc. So please, **Starving Artist** , spare us the melodramatic whiny laments about how conservatives in general are just sensible rational people who are being unfairly demonized by liberals in general for happening to have a different opinion. > > The fact is that many people from both sides of the political spectrum demonize their opponents and try to paint them as bad people rather than just supporters of bad ideas. Conservatives on average are at least as prone to indulge in that kind of attack tactic as anyone else. > > Your conservative martyr act, suggesting that it’s only the liberals who gratuitously bash their opponents in that way, isn’t fooling anybody. Apparently it has escaped your attention that your post substantiates exactly what I said. The conservative criticisms you list all speak to negative consequences or bad ideas, also like I just said. None of them refer to as liberals evil, stupid, morons, mouth-breathing knuckkle-draggers, selfish, uncaring, sexist, racist, blah, blah, blah, all of which are the liberal’s stock in trade and have been for decades. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=51) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=53)