# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 54
**Author:** ![Nadir](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nadir/32/7302_2.png) [@Nadir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nadir)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 2:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1061 "2011-02-16T14:13:19Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > You’re perfectly within your rights to charge for it if you want to, of course; I’m just not sure… C’mon now, admit it - you’re just afraid he doesn’t have the supple mangina lobohan yearns for. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1062 "2011-02-16T15:16:25Z")
> [@Nadir](#): > > C’mon now, admit it - you’re just afraid he doesn’t have the supple mangina lobohan yearns for. 😛 That sounds like it would be really funny in context, but there’s no way in fuck I’m reading 22 pages to get it fully. I’ll just giggle at the junior-highish word _mangina_ and be content. ---
**Author:** ![CannyDan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cannydan/32/548_2.png) [@CannyDan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CannyDan)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1063 "2011-02-16T15:21:20Z")
> [@bup](#): > > That sounds like it would be really funny in context, but there’s no way in fuck I’m reading 22 pages to get it fully. > > I’ll just giggle at the junior-highish word _mangina_ and be content. \*cough \*post 1050 _cough_ ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1064 "2011-02-16T18:59:45Z")
> [@Champion-of-Truth](#): > > Damuri wrote: NVM. Its probably bad form to respond to someone that got banned. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1065 "2011-02-16T19:31:42Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > And if they were an isolated group or an individual, I wouldn’t care either. But you have the U.S. Cole, the embassy in Beirut, the nightclub in Bali, the would-be Times Square bomber, Richard Reid, the underwear bomber, the bombings in Spain and England, the shooter at Fort Hood, the traitor GI who used hand grenades on his own men, and others. and they share a common denominator. Having a common denominator is a \*good \*thing from a prevention standpoint. It gives you one piece of information that helps you know where to look and where not to look. And given that law enforcement has limited resources, they are eager to exploit common denominators. Now you’re making a different argument. You can try to argue a high correlation between terrorism in the US and Islamic extremists and see how far you get. That was not the OP. The OP was that whipping a 14 year old rape victim to death would give you a flavor for Islam. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1066 "2011-02-16T19:35:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I agree. But hatred is one thing. Blowing up innocent people including children is QUITE another. Can you address my point about your attribution of the violence to the Q’uran? If the words in teh q’uran is what is causing all this violence then you would expect this relative level of violence and fucked up shit throughout history and that simply doesn’t seem to be the case. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1067 "2011-02-16T19:38:55Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Oh, an attack on our soil that resulted in the second largest loss of American life (largest for non-military) and altered the skyline of our largest city is “not that big a deal”?😕 Are you nuts? > > But I have to ask, in your lifetime, what was a bigger thing to happen? The Vietnam War. The fall of communism. The war in iraq. Hurricane Katrina and new orleans. The Bush recession. These are all at least in teh same ballpark YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1068 "2011-02-16T19:40:31Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Hint: one was a threat. The other actually happened. Yeah so did the Vietnam War. That was part of the Cold War too. The Cold war was mroe than people staring at each other down the barrel of a missile silo. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1069 "2011-02-16T19:42:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > First, I really don’t care about what happened in times past. why should we? Does it matter that Protestants burnt witches in a more ignorant time? Why? What certainly matters is that they don’t do that today. So, I’m fine judging a religion based on how it is expressed in our time. > > But, to answer your question, Islam has been visiting barbarism on the world for over a thousand years. You want proof. The proof can be seen in the way they treat women. They treat them the same way now as they did a thousand years ago. They’re chattel. And Allah forbid the few percent of the population that is born gay are ever found out?. When you are blaming shit muslims do on teh q’uran and the q’uran hasn’t changed in a thousand years then history does matter. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1070 "2011-02-16T19:43:01Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, yeah, because present-day Egyptian radical extremist Islamists are part of the repressive fundamentalist movement **within contemporary Islam** that all we liberal pro-democracy pro-human-rights types agree is a bad thing. Yes, that’s a better way of putting it than simply “Islam is worse”. Repressive, agressive, hypersensitve and in need of a sedative. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1071 "2011-02-16T20:00:20Z")
> [@NCDane](#): > > I have been around and around on the topic to the tune of 100s, > maybe 1000s of posts of various chat rooms since 2004. I am tired > of it, and do not wish to take part in any more lengthy exchanges. Then you shouldn’t make assertions you are not ready to debate or back up and just assume we will just take your word on the matter. Alternatively if you have an OPINION on which people can differ, people frequently use the phrase “your mileage may vary” or YMMV. > [@](#): > > I am satisfied with the case I have made for the role of religion > as a cause and basis for terror. I have nothing to add and shall > not reply further on that theme. I’m glad that you find your own argument convincing. > [@](#): > > You are mistaken. There has been no change in the religious demographics > of the abortion issue for close to 50 years. The Evangelical fundamentalists > are the only faction so opposed to abortion as to consider Pro-Life commitment > mandatory in who they vote for, and their numbers have not risen significantly. > Obama would never have won my home state (North Carolina) otherwise. > The basis for the teabaggers recent success has nothing to do with abortion. > It arose in opposition to emergency bailout of the financial and automobile > industries, and in a general hostility toward federal government powers. I’m not saying that racists and the “i don’t want to pay taxes no matter what” crowd are becoming pro-lifers, I am saying pro-lifers are adopting the attitudes of racist and the “I don’t pay taxes no matter what” crowd. > [@](#): > > What “quote” button are you speaking of? for long replies like this one > I copy the post I am speaking to to a Word document and then copy > and paste it back at SD. Its on the bottom right hand corner of every post. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1072 "2011-02-16T20:09:08Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Reported. > > Only kidding. But don’t you find it odd that an author as popular as Coulter would have her words banned here? You’re comfortable with that? I don’t think she is banned. I think the sentiments of genocide that the poster was expressing is banned. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1073 "2011-02-16T20:30:09Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > The OP was that whipping a 14 year old rape victim to death would give you a flavor for Islam. Worst. Ben & Jerry’s. _Ever_. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1074 "2011-02-16T20:30:18Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > It’s fucking disgusting, and I can’t believe the good liberals on this board, supposedly champions of women’s rights and vigorous scorners of Christians for their belief in “sky fairies”, routinely defend Islam on this board while at the same time castigating Christians and conservatives for behavior that is far, far less egregious, even if true. They’re not defending Islam and they’re certainly not defending the mideival customs practiced in some muslim communities… They’re attacking bigotry. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1075 "2011-02-16T20:41:58Z")
Did we ever find out why Ashenlady was banned on 2/10/2010 after less than a month on the board? Did we ever find out why Champion of Truth got banned four days after being created on 2/10/2010. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1076 "2011-02-16T20:51:48Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Did we ever find out why Ashenlady was banned on 2/10/2010 after less than a month on the board? According to the ATMB thread, it’s because she was warned repeatedly, as well as engaging in several other borderline infractions that they initially declined to act upon. > [@](#): > > Did we ever find out why Champion of Truth got banned four days after being created on 2/10/2010. No thread for him, which implies sock or troll. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1077 "2011-02-16T21:19:19Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > So opposition to the ills of Islam (I won’t call it extremism because things like whippings and hangings of young girls and “honor” killings by family members are too widespread and common to be attributed to extremism)… I don’t define extremism in terms of how many people agree with you. It’s how far a position on a politicl or social policy issue deviates from what is reasonable. It’s not easy to quantify. > [@](#): > > …and being pro-democracy are “liberal” qualities now? Practically by definition. Liberalism is support for reforms to dismantle the power of the “establishment” and create a more open society. > [@](#): > > George W. Bush favored the introduction of democracy into the Middle East and hoped (presciently it would appear) that a democratic Iraq could lead to the spread of democracy throughout the region. Are you therefore calling him a liberal? You don’t recall hearing commentators referring to the US as trying bring _liberalsm_ to Iraq? > [@](#): > > what about William F. Buckley, also a staunch supporter of democracy? Or Ronald Reagan? Relatively speaking in certain contexts, yes. Your problem is that you’re putting the cart before the horse in defining liberalism. “Liberal” is an adjective before it’s a noun. It’s not defined as “what liberals do”. > [@](#): > > It’s absolutely ludicrous that you’re trying to claim that being in favor of democracy and concern for human rights is a liberal position. Particularly where it comes to Islam, which although defended at every opportunity by this country’s liberals, is about the most dictatorial, inflexible and repressive religion and basis for government that exists today. Again, it’s about context. In one context, the establishment is being mean to a religious minority. In another context, the religious authorities and prevailing cultural mores _are_ the mean ol’ establishment. You serioulsy think there is no support among American feminists for greater freedom for women in Islamic societies? > [@](#): > > But then so was Communism in its day, and you liberals were all about that. And for most of the last fifty or sixty years there has scarcely been a lefist dictator in Latin America that the American left hasn’t fallen in love with. Liberalism is not the same thing as leftism. In Russian, Boris Yeltsen and his supporters were the liberals despite being on the right while the Communist old-guard were the conervative despite being on the left. > [@](#): > > Liberals are pro-democracy and pro-human rights, my ass. In the US, conservatives win elections by suppressing voter turnout, and oppose human rights for gay (and until recently, blacks, etc. Conservatives can’t run away from the past as readily as liberals can). Liberals are still imperfect human beings and there’s a tendancy to gainsay in knee-jerk fashion anything coming from conservatives–because they’re usually such assholes. But we also struggle with paradoxes. Which is a bigger deal, minor conservative extremism here at home or extreme conservative extremism halfway around the world? And what realistically can be done about it? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1078 "2011-02-16T21:45:53Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Practically by definition. Liberalism is support for reforms to dismantle the power of the “establishment” and create a more open society. I prefer progressive/conservative versus liberal/progressive. > [@](#): > > Liberalism is not the same thing as leftism. In Russian, Boris Yeltsen and his supporters were the liberals despite being on the right while the Communist old-guard were the conervative despite being on the left. +1 > [@](#): > > Liberals ..there’s a tendancy to gainsay in knee-jerk fashion anything coming from conservatives They’re just playing the percentages. > [@](#): > > But we also struggle with paradoxes. Which is a bigger deal, minor conservative extremism here at home or extreme conservative extremism halfway around the world? And what realistically can be done about it? +1 ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1079 "2011-02-16T22:54:10Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > Repressive, agressive, hypersensitve and in need of a sedative. Absolutely. One of the most destructive and pernicious cultural/political movements in all of modern history, if you ask me, right up there with Nazism and Stalinism. What especially gets my goat about contemporary radical-extremist Islam, besides the whole killing/raping/stoning thing, is the way it deliberately sets out to suppress and delegitimize other interpretations of Islam that don’t conform to its twisted fundamentalist notions of doctrinal purity. Its adherents savagely attack more tolerant or pluralistic Muslim traditions just as viciously as they attack non-Muslims, if not more so. Consider just a few examples: - Sufi Muslims in Pakistan and northern India, who follow a tradition of mystical and devotional Muslim religious practice partly influenced by Buddhist and Hindu concepts, with a strong theological emphasis on divine love and universal brotherhood, are [targeted by Salafi Muslim zealots funded by Saudi Islamist fundamentalist groups, who condemn Sufi practices as idolatry:](http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/17/opinion/17dalrymple.html?pagewanted=2&_r=1) > [@](#): > > Symbolically, however, the most devastating Taliban attack occurred last spring at the shrine of the 17th-century poet-saint Rahman Baba, at the foot of the Khyber Pass in northwest Pakistan. For centuries, the complex has been a place for musicians and poets to gather, and Rahman Baba’s Sufi verses had long made him the national poet of the Pashtuns living on both sides of the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. “I am a lover, and I deal in love,” wrote the saint. “Sow flowers,/ so your surroundings become a garden./ Don’t sow thorns; for they will prick your feet./ We are all one body./ Whoever tortures another, wounds himself.” > > THEN, about a decade ago, a Saudi-financed religious school, or madrasa, was built at the end of the path leading to the shrine. Soon its students took it upon themselves to halt what they see as the un-Islamic practices of Rahman Baba’s admirers. When I last visited it in 2003, the shrine-keeper, Tila Mohammed, described how young students were coming regularly to complain that his shrine was a center of idolatry and immorality. […] > > Then, one morning in early March 2009, a group of Pakistani Taliban arrived at the shrine before dawn and placed dynamite packages around the squinches supporting the shrine’s dome. In the ensuing explosion, the mausoleum was destroyed, but at least nobody was killed. The Pakistani Taliban quickly took credit, blaming the shrine’s administrators for allowing women to pray and seek healing there. - The Salafi terrorist group al-Shabaab in Somalia carries out brutal attacks against adherents of more moderate Muslim traditions, including destruction of Sufi shrines, in Somalia and other countries. - Wahhabi fundamentalist activists in majority-Muslim Kosovo [denounce and physically assault](http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/016/227tekxq.asp) other Muslims for maintaining traditional practices that they consider sacrilegious, like reciting prayers for the Prophet (a custom rejected by the fundamentalists as allegedly imitative of Christianity). - Islamist extremists [use violence and threats to intimidate gays](http://www.365gay.com/news/violence-mars-bosnia-gay-pride/) in Muslim or predominantly-Muslim societies where homosexuality is legal, such as Bosnia and Turkey. If the radical fundamentalist Islamists just wanted to go cultivate their particular toxic brand of “religious purity” in isolation and not try to impose it on other Muslims as the “only true Islam”, that would be one thing. I still wouldn’t like their culture but I wouldn’t consider it blatantly tyrannical. As it is, though, their hostility to any competing visions of Islam and their fanatical aggression against them—ranging from physical assaults on non-fundamentalist Muslims to blowing up Sufi shrines and Ottoman and Shi`ite mosques—puts them completely beyond the pale of toleration, as far as I’m concerned. ---
**Author:** ![Shot\_From\_Guns](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ccd318/32.png) [@Shot\_From\_Guns](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shot_From_Guns)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2011, 11:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1080 "2011-02-16T23:02:39Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > As it is, though, their hostility to any competing visions of Islam and their fanatical aggression against them—ranging from physical assaults on non-fundamentalist Muslims to blowing up Sufi shrines and Ottoman and Shi`ite mosques—puts them completely beyond the pale of toleration, as far as I’m concerned. Here goes that strawman again. Who is advocating tolerance of these shitheads? Oh, wait, nobody here. We’re simply arguing against tarring \*all \*of those scary brown people with the same bigoted brush. The overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by men. Castration would prevent rape. Would you then argue that the solution to rape is to castrate all men? :rolleyes: [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=53) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=55)