# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/101 "2011-02-05T22:07:59Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Can you point to anyone in this thread who accepts the treatment of women that is commonly associate with Islamic cultures? > > What is being objected to is that OPs constant harping about Islam as if there were people here who defend the backward practices like the one this thread is about. Nope. I doubt anyone here would defend the practice itself. But they do seek to excuse it by heaping it in with all the other atrocities committed by man. Their PC knee-jerk response is to dismiss any notion that such actions are related to similar ones by other Muslims and look to the degree that the religion is at fault. Nope. Just another religion just like any other. And the proof is that somewhere, at some time, there are or have been atrocities committed by non-Muslims. So, when it comes to barbarism, murder, and mutilation in today’s world, Islam deserves no closer look than Catholicism, Buddhism, or Quakerism. :rolleyes: And those numbers **NCDane** posted, "Well…er, uh…um…well, hmmmm, uh… Never mind. " ---
**Author:** ![NCDane](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/ecccb3/32.png) [@NCDane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NCDane)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/102 "2011-02-05T22:16:13Z")
> [@casdave](#): > > Look, I don’t care about the accusations of racism, if those numbers are anythng like correct, 50% of those muslims are extremist nutters. I think it is reasonable to assume that Pew conducted its poll in conformance with scientific procedure, and that its results should be trusted. As for my own arithmetic, after it was too late to edit I noticed that some of the numbers did not look quite right, although I thought I had checked them thoroughly when I posted them at another board. I therefore ran all the numbers again, using data from the following link: [CIA World Factbook](https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2119rank.html) For the sake of tranparency I should report likely overstatment of 3 million Muslims favoring capital punishement for apostasy, and of 2 million Muslims favoring stoning for adultery. However, no error had significant effect on the percentages: 49% of Muslims favor capital punishement for apostasy (not 50%) 57% of Muslims favor capital punishement for adultery (not 58%) ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/103 "2011-02-05T22:16:41Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > You’re just being daft. Your post was simply asking the same stupid, fucking question three fucking times. There is no nuance to be had between the words preceding the ?s in your sentences. If you believe that, you are the one who is daft. The first sentence looks at the specific atrocity. The last one explores the degree to which a string of similar atrocities reflect on the common denominator. Sorry to disappoint you, but those are two very different things. ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/104 "2011-02-05T22:20:40Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Nope. I doubt anyone here would defend the practice itself. But they do seek to excuse it by heaping it in with all the other atrocities committed by man. Their PC knee-jerk response is to dismiss any notion that such actions are related to similar ones by other Muslims and look to the degree that the religion is at fault. Nope. Just another religion just like any other. And the proof is that somewhere, at some time, there are or have been atrocities committed by non-Muslims. So, when it comes to barbarism, murder, and mutilation in today’s world, Islam deserves no closer look than Catholicism, Buddhism, or Quakerism. :rolleyes: These sectors of Islam deserve nothing but the full scorn of all civilized society. Instead, they get quasi acceptance by the PC crowd who may not support the acts of barbarism themselves but value their ability “look the other way” more than they do the poor victims of these savages. This quasi acceptance does nothing but embolden their actions even more. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/105 "2011-02-05T22:23:16Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > These sectors of Islam deserve nothing but the full scorn of all civilized society. Instead, they get quasi acceptance by the PC crowd who may not support the acts of barbarism themselves but value their ability “look the other way” more than they do the poor victims of these savages. This quasi acceptance does nothing but embolden their actions even more. Well said. In their defense, it is the “religion of peace”. [Snicker] ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/106 "2011-02-05T22:25:12Z")
There is nothing inherent in Islam that makes it any better or worse than Christianity. It’s backward cultures and oppressive governments in Islamic countries that are the major causes of the stuff you keep harping about wrt Islam. We have more Muslims than Jews in the US, and they have largely assimilated the culture and values of the western world wrt laws and justice. Why is that? And of all the Islamic countries out there\*, does it seem odd that Turkey, which is both democratic and non-Arab, is where you find people with the most moderate views? \*in the Middle East ---
**Author:** ![flickster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7bcc69/32.png) [@flickster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flickster)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/107 "2011-02-05T22:29:56Z")
But in many of these troubled & oppresive countries, Islam government and Islam religion is all one and the same ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/108 "2011-02-05T22:32:00Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > … May the blessed Baby Jesus shut your mouth … I always wonder why threads like this seem like a flashback . . . then I remember that they are. They’re [Juror 10’s Rant](http://movieclips.com/QHeg-twelve-angry-men-movie-juror-10s-racist-rant/) from _Twelve Angry Men_. Damn you Reginald Rose and Sidney Lumet, you made me into a (PC) monster! CMC fnord! (Excellent impersonation of E.G. Marshall **'luc**.) ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/109 "2011-02-05T22:33:41Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > But in many of these troubled & oppresive countries, Islam government and Islam religion is all one and the same Nope. They are mostly dictatorial police states. The rulers themselves, other than in Iran, are more secular than not. They may use Islam when it suits their purpose, but they’re all about maintaining power. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/110 "2011-02-05T22:34:32Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > There is nothing inherent in Islam that makes it any better or worse than Christianity. Do you think that the Quran and the New Testament are equally doctrines of peace? If we had to follow one book to the letter, which one wold you choose? > [@John\_Mace](#): > > It’s backward cultures and oppressive governments in Islamic countries that are the major causes of the stuff you keep harping about wrt Islam. I agree that culture plays a big role, but what you seem to overlook is that Islam is a huge part of these cultures. In many instances it’s almost inseparable. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > We have more Muslims than Jews in the US, and they have largely assimilated the culture and values of the western world wrt laws and justice. Why is that? 1. Because they have assimilated, and abandoned their barbaric interpretation of their religion (though honor killings and the mutilation of young girls do happen in the U.S.—by Muslims.) 2) They have two. They do not have sufficient numbers to have the more barbaric interpretations rule the day. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > And of all the Islamic countries out there\*, does it seem odd that Turkey, which is both democratic and non-Arab, is where you find people with the most moderate views? Not sure what point you’re making here. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/111 "2011-02-05T22:34:59Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > These sectors of Islam deserve nothing but the full scorn of all civilized society. Instead, they get quasi acceptance by the PC crowd who may not support the acts of barbarism themselves but value their ability “look the other way” more than they do the poor victims of these savages. Wow, this “PC crowd” sound like real assholes. Where are they, again? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/112 "2011-02-05T22:36:50Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Nope. They are mostly dictatorial police states. The rulers themselves, other than in Iran, are more secular than not. They may use Islam when it suits their purpose, but they’re all about maintaining power. But in the many small towns where most of the atrocities we here about take place, wouldn’t you grant that the elders are following Sharia law? ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/113 "2011-02-05T22:41:00Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Do you think that the Quran and the New Testament are equally doctrines of peace? If we had to follow one book to the letter, which one wold you choose? Well, you left our the Old Testament, which is still important in many Christian sects. How convEEEEEEnient. > [@](#): > > I agree that culture plays a big role, but what you seem to overlook is that Islam is a huge part of these cultures. In many instances it’s almost inseparable. Islam, like any religion with 1B adherents, can adapt to a whole host of cultures. > [@](#): > > 1. Because they have assimilated, and abandoned their barbaric interpretation of their religion (though honor killings and the mutilation of young girls do happen in the U.S.—by Muslims.) 2) They have two. They do not have sufficient numbers to have the more barbaric interpretations rule the day. > > Not sure what point you’re making here. See item #2 in your paragraph, above. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/114 "2011-02-05T22:49:08Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Well, you left our the Old Testament, which is still important in many Christian sects. How convEEEEEEnient. It was very intentional. There are some barbaric passages in the Old Testament. But most people or followers of Judeo-Christian religions do not give it more weight than the New Testament. Do you know what sects do? If so, let’s look at them and see if they are more barbaric than those which follow the New testament. > [@John\_Mace](#): > > Islam, like any religion with 1B adherents, can adapt to a whole host of cultures. And in many of them, in many of the tiny villages and outposts, Islam and Sharia law is the foundation for their barbarism. ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/115 "2011-02-05T22:52:07Z")
> [@flickster](#): > > I waded in to hurl my scorn, but after reading through this train wreck I can’t make up my mind in which way to sling… > > On one hand you have the insane lunatics that have corrupted Islam > > On another, you have the predictable SDMB PC crowd who stand guard against all attacks on Islam and will to their best to deflect or minimize atrocities by using the same tired arguments over and over > > And on the other, you have the predictable SDMB “I hate all things religion” crowd. > > It’s a veritable trifecta of targets… This is the truth…this guy hit the trifecta and got what’s coming to him and what isn’t, all wrapped up and tied. Sharia law is evil and horrible. Just because you want to give Islam a fair shake, doesn’t mean that one has to defend the entities of Islam that are unacceptable, any more than the unacceptable things that prevail in other religions. It isn’t equitable, either. There are different travesties within each and every religion and its fair to cut them down, if we want to give parity to all inconoclasts here at the SD. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/116 "2011-02-05T22:55:45Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > It was very intentional. There are some barbaric passages in the Old Testament. But most people or followers of Judeo-Christian religions do not give it more weight than the New Testament. Do you know what sects do? If so, let’s look at them and see if they are more barbaric than those which follow the New testament. But the OT is still part of the religion. What difference does it make if the NT is given “more weight”. I was talking about what was inherent to the religions. The OT is “inherent” to Christianity. And when Christians want to oppress some group, they usually make a beeline to the OT in order to do so. > [@](#): > > And in many of them, in many of the tiny villages and outposts, Islam and Sharia law is the foundation for their barbarism. It’s the excuse, not the foundation. Do you think if you went to pre-Islamic Afghanistan, for instance, you would find enlightened, modern liberals celebrating diversity? No. You’d find oppressed women and young boys being used as sex objects by powerful men, as they are still doing today. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/117 "2011-02-05T22:56:11Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > … Old Testament … But most people or followers of Judeo-Christian religions do not give it more weight than the New Testament. Do you know what sects do? … Umm, Jews maybe? CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/118 "2011-02-05T22:58:50Z")
> [@crowmanyclouds](#): > > Umm, Jews maybe? > > CMC fnord! :smack: How did I miss that?? ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/119 "2011-02-05T23:38:36Z")
One thing I’d like to ask **ncdane** , **magellan** and those who agree with them: to clarify, you seem to think that Islam, as a religion, is inherently violent/evil/whatever adjective you wish to use. So what? What do we, or can we, do about it? How do we treat countries whose majorities practice it? How do we (as citizens or as institutions, whether government or law enforcement based) treat those who practice it? In a perfect world, how would you LIKE things to be done? ---
**Author:** ![AshenLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/94ad74/32.png) [@AshenLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AshenLady)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2011, 11:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/120 "2011-02-05T23:39:03Z")
Yeah, the Old Testament is a guidebook for Hebrews…any one else who wants to use it is free to do so, or not…athiests are welcome to scorn the Book all they want; after all, it’s a free country. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=7)