# More Muslim Marvelousnous **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [February 5, 2011, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243 "2011-02-05T03:19:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 60
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1181 "2011-02-18T19:47:24Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Thanks for proving that you don’t read very well. Or process information maybe not at all. There are only 6 or 7 million Muslims in the U.S., in a population of over 300 million. > > I look forward to the next way you decide to advertise your poor reading skills and even poorer thinking skills. I just hope it’s as good as this last one. Don’t let me down now. Then why focus on what some Muslims in bangladesh are doing? You seem to be saying something about Islam generally rather making an argument for better security in the USA. You’re not bashing terrorists, you are bashing islam based on what happened in that article taht you cite. When you spout off stuff like that, everything else you write on the subject just looks like an extension of racism and bigotry. For example, I can make an argument for racial differences in IQ but if I spent my entire life in the KKK, people just aren’t going to give a lot of credit to any scientific data I have that might show this racial disparity. They’ll just chalk it up to more of my racism. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1182 "2011-02-18T19:51:11Z")
> [@TravisFromOR](#): > > Good point. We need an easy way to identify them on the street. Maybe we could make them wear an armband with a cresent moon and star so we can tell who to be careful of. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1183 "2011-02-18T19:52:30Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I don’t think it’s necessary, but it wouldn’t bother me. As far as the topic at hand, as I’ve said before, the FBI should focus in first in Muslims (mosques) and further cull from there. Are you under the impression that the FBI keeps tabs on random people in the hopes that one of them might be a terrorist? They keep tabs on radicals of all stripes and tehre aren’t enough FBI agents in the country to profile every muslim in America. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1184 "2011-02-18T19:54:36Z")
> [@villa](#): > > Of course, if you want to register firearms, that is a huge no no. Registering people’s religion, on the other hand, well, there’s no history of that turning out bad. Haven’t you ever seen Red Dawn? It could happen!!! WOLVERINES!!! ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1185 "2011-02-18T20:00:12Z")
> [@Starving\_Artist](#): > > And the second is the poll showing widespread support in much of the Muslim world for the barbaric practices which we are constantly told by liberals are only committed by “extremists.” > > Curious, that. I’m pretty sure I addressed the polling data. If you think fundamentlist Islamic views are the root cause of terrorism in the middle east, you have to explain Lebanon. The reply seems to be that Lebanon (and Lebanon alone has been subjected to geopolitical forces that makes them mroe prone to terrorism, everywhere else (where similar geopolitical forces exist), its all because they worship a bloodthirsty pedophile who told them to kill people in the Q’uran. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1186 "2011-02-18T20:08:09Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I care about trying to stop people before they try to kill us. As far as your living arrangements, I, too, would prefer that you live next to a terrorist then me. If you’d like to increase the odds of that happening here in the U.S., make sure you move next door to a Muslim. > > … > > Now pay attention to what I wrote…I’d say remember your logic class, but I think I’d be asking the impossible. I did _not_ say that all Muslims are terrorists. No, you’re just saying that we should treat them as if they were. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1187 "2011-02-18T20:12:40Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > This nonsense again? From you? Oh, you disappoint me greatly, **tommy**. Short answer: isolated incident by an angry murderous animal and his partner in crime. It is not tied to any other incident. He and his buddies did not act as part of a larger group. It was tied to Waco and the belief system centered around gun rights and anti-government paranoia. ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1188 "2011-02-18T20:13:24Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > **NOW** I think I see where the confusion is. It’s apparently not bigotry so much as simple misapprehension of statistics. > > **magellan01** , I’m willing to believe you when you say that you’re not bigoted against Muslims _per se_ and that you don’t believe all Muslims are terrorists. He’s just got general Archie Bunker type xenophobia. He would never suggest that we find the assassin of an abortion doctor by starting with all churches and then winnowing our way down to smaller and smaller groups until we defined a small enough subset to be useful to an investigation but with Muslims, well the threat is so dire that we must, we simply must. ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1189 "2011-02-18T20:17:22Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > My analogy is: if you know you’re looking for a needle hidden in a haystack,start by looking in haystacks. What state are the haystacks going to be in after you’re done looking in them? And analogies aside, what exactly does this “looking” entail? ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1190 "2011-02-18T20:25:59Z")
Perhaps nothing more onerous than an extra special pledge of allegiance, give them the opportunity to affirm their Americanness. Like Glenn Beck did to the Hon. Kieth Ellison when he asked him to prove that he was not un-American. (The Hon. Mr. Ellison is a Muslim and a Congressman. From my district. Voted for him. Did I mention that?..) ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1191 "2011-02-18T20:26:47Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > I’ve never advocated using it “solely”. As far as “primarily”. if you mean "most important, I’d say no. If you mean “first step”, it’s useful. again, within which group are you most likely to find radical Muslims? Answer: Muslims! I would have said radicals as a whole have a much higher concentration of radical muslims than muslims as a whole but that just a WAG. > [@](#): > > I’ll also note that they put the American Muslim population at about 3 million, which makes my position stronger. The smaller the pool the more sense it makes to look at it. It weakens your position because noone can put a frikking number on it. Muslims say the number is higher, people who want to marginalize them say thye number is lower. How do we idnentify all these muslims? > [@](#): > > But your analogy assumes that radical Islamists have separated themselves out from the general Muslim population in a way that is obvious. That is the case for some, like the Ft. Hood animal, but certainly not all. Not even a majority. Look at the 9/11 hijackers. Look at the wannabe Times Square bomber? They’re not raising their hands saying, “Oh, look at me over here. I’m who you should be keeping an eye on.” But you are wrong. If you limit your inquiry to people who have visited certain countries and who have corresponded with certain groups, you capture pretty much everyone that isn’t a lone gunman (almost by definition). > [@](#): > > My analogy is: if you know you’re looking for a needle hidden in a haystack,start by looking in haystacks. Even if you know that the needle is in one particular haystack? ---
**Author:** ![Damuri\_Ajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/898d66/32.png) [@Damuri\_Ajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Damuri_Ajashi)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1192 "2011-02-18T20:32:07Z")
> [@sqweels](#): > > It was tied to Waco and the belief system centered around gun rights and anti-government paranoia. And would you say that is more of a conservative attitude or more of a progressive attitude? ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [February 18, 2011, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1193 "2011-02-18T22:12:16Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > But I assume that those tasked with protecting us would then apply filters that would reveal their degree of radicalness. Mosque affiliation, travel, etc.. Whatever filters they deem helpful. Could we apply the same method to reduce crimes committed with guns? Gun ownership is the common denominator, so we should start by having the government investigate all gun owners, find out who is a threat and who isn’t. Whatever filters they deem helpful. You would support that as well? ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1194 "2011-02-19T00:04:04Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Should be kinda obvious. In fact it is: radical Islam is a subset of Islam. Where do you think you’d be finding them, in synagogues and Quaker Meeting Houses? This strikes me as looking for KGB spies at American Communist Party meetings. Which is really fucking stupid. Fact is, if there were Al Qaeda terrorists infiltrated in America (which seems really doubtful to me, really), I’m guessing the first thing they’d do is wash a ham sandwich down with bourbon at the airport. Why would they _not_ publicly distance themselves from anything that would let them be caught by your silly “common sense” tactics ? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1195 "2011-02-19T00:13:10Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > But if you know that the radical Xs are most likely to be _within a particular little bag INSIDE the big bag of Xs_, then **why would you waste your time sifting through the WHOLE bag of Xs??** Focus your scrutiny on that little bag instead. You _don’t_ know who all the radicals are. And no one is saying you then start looking at each X individually. You keep applying as many filters as you can: gender, age, travel, mosque affiliation, family relationships with known terrorists, etc. You keep looking at this as if my first filter is the only filter. It’s not. It’s one of many. And the more filters the better. What is so difficult about this? Here’s another way to look at it. Let’s look at the Christian religions. Let’s say they there were a group of serial killers killing people and leaving passages from the bible scribbled on the walls. and there was some evidence at the scenes that the killers had some reverence for Christianity. One characteristic that you might assign to these killers would be that their Christian, right? Now in the U.S., that alone wouldn’t be very helpful, given the numbers. But it would be a start, and you look at other characteristics you can assign to the killers and further reduce the pool of potential suspects. But let’s say these killings happened in Japan, where Christians are a small minority. Starting with those who are Christian would be a good place to _start_, for a first filter. > [@Kimstu](#): > > This insistence on focusing on the “big bag” as an object of scrutiny, even though **we have already identified the salient characteristics of the “little bag” where the problem is actually located** , is the part of your argument that seems totally, persistently irrational. Ah. Here’s the mistake you’re making. You’re assuming that we _can_ identify all those individuals that belong in the little bag from the get go. We don’t. And in our efforts to determine who they are (in the U.S., where they are a small minority), we do know that radical Muslims belong to the larger set called “Muslims”. Why is it that you think that looking for radical Muslims in the larger pool of Muslims is illogical? You KNOW they are contained in the group. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Since we have a very clear picture of the particular types of **radical extremist Islam** where this religious violence is actually located, why are you still so insistent about the need to scrutinize or mistrust Islam **as a whole**? I’m not following you here. > [@Kimstu](#): > > If somebody’s looking for, say, a beautiful female model to be his true love, would it make sense for him to say “well, a female model is a woman so I’ll start by looking among groups of women in general”? > > Should he try to scope out all the places where women are more likely to be found than men, from mall shoe stores to knitting clubs to roller derby leagues to Tupperware parties, and look for beautiful models among them? Would that be “a sensible, hell, a tautological first step” in his search, as you suggest? > > _ **Of course not.** _ If our hypothetical model-hunter has any sense, he’ll concentrate his search **on the places where he’s likely to find female models RATHER than other types of women**. He’ll check out modeling agencies, fashion shoots, hell I don’t know, where else do models hang out? The point is that **he’ll use the _specific_ characteristics of the type he’s looking for to narrow his search right away**. He won’t start his search with her most **general** characteristics and then try to screen out the vast majority who don’t meet his specific criteria. But he won’t be looking at modeling agencies that deal exclusively with _male_ models, will he? What you’re advocating makes sense, but all your doing is choosing places where attractive WOMEN hang out. You need to filter for women or you’d be wasting your time, right? That’s the first cut. Next, you filter for other characteristics that might correlate with models: gym membership, yoga membership, shopping at Barney’s New York, Prada, etc. > [@Kimstu](#): > > That type of ridiculously over-broad and diffused search strategy is exactly what you’re advocating in the case of hunting radical-Islamist terrorists. Do you see why your argument is coming across as so inexplicably bizarre and irrational? Please, please, please, PLEASE try to digest this, as it it getting old: I have not and do not advocate applying one initial filter and then scrutinizing every individual. If you cannot grasp that by now, or for some other reason insist on attributing that belief to me, any future discussion is pointless. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1196 "2011-02-19T00:20:13Z")
**Kimstu,** You wanted me to weigh evidence in the hopes that it would sway me from my position. You provided a link that, you thought, made it clear that my assumptions were wrong. As it turned out, you were wrong about what the study showed. As I mentioned in an earlier post (and you ignored), the study showed you were completely wrong about the likelihood of a Muslim in the U.S. being a terrorist and **my position was the correct one.** so, now that you have this new evidence, will you rethink your position? ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1197 "2011-02-19T00:30:01Z")
> [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > It weakens your position because noone can put a frikking number on it. Bullshit. whatever the number is it is sufficiently low to be helpful. The highest estimate I’ve seen is 6 million. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > If you limit your inquiry to people who have visited certain countries and who have corresponded with certain groups, you capture **pretty much** everyone that isn’t a lone gunman (almost by definition). (bolding mine) Maybe. but if you start with “Muslims” as the first filter, you capture ALL radical Muslims. > [@Damuri\_Ajashi](#): > > Even if you know that the needle is in one particular haystack? Yep. Go to the Muslim haystack. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1198 "2011-02-19T00:35:52Z")
Ah, yes, the Islamic strawman. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1199 "2011-02-19T00:38:14Z")
> [@magellan01](#): > > Please, please, please, PLEASE try to digest this, as it it getting old: I have not and do not advocate applying one initial filter and then scrutinizing every individual. If you cannot grasp that by now, or for some other reason insist on attributing that belief to me, any future discussion is pointless. Someone once said, “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.” They left out the fourth kind: “Magellan’s weaselings.” You are a damn liar. You have advocated just that very thing in this thread: Treat all Muslims with suspicion. In other words, the first (that’s what _initial_ means, you moron) filter you want applied is: “Is this person Muslim?” Recently I made a post referring to a thread as a place for melt-downs. You’re melting down and I, for one, am glad of it. I hope you kick that melt-down into overdrive and get banned soon. Your stupidity, your prejudice, and your total lack of honesty seem to qualify you for the baninator. It’s becomingly increasingly hard to distinguish your behavior from any other troll. ---
**Author:** ![magellan01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@magellan01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/magellan01)\ **Post date:** [February 19, 2011, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243/1200 "2011-02-19T01:05:04Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > Someone once said, “There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.” They left out the fourth kind: “Magellan’s weaselings.” You are a damn liar. You have advocated just that very thing in this thread: Treat all Muslims with suspicion. In other words, the first (that’s what _initial_ means, you moron) filter you want applied is: “Is this person Muslim?” > > Recently I made a post referring to a thread as a place for melt-downs. You’re melting down and I, for one, am glad of it. I hope you kick that melt-down into overdrive and get banned soon. Your stupidity, your prejudice, and your total lack of honesty seem to qualify you for the baninator. It’s becomingly increasingly hard to distinguish your behavior from any other troll. You’re a fucking clown. And, evidently, a scumbag. You want to assign beliefs to me that I do not have. That I’ve stated I do not have. You want me to have that belief so you can justify some hate toward me. Too bad, chum. and the part I like the best is that you try to come off in other threads as having some piousness, a follower of Christ. Ha. You embarrass Christ. And anyone who values honorable actions. So, rend yourself from your holy garment and don a hair shirt and pray for forgiveness. Pray that Christ is strong enough to override the stupidity and hate in you. You’re dumb. You’re a dishonest debater. And as far as your piety, Jesus knows you’re a fake and a phony. He’s just wondering when and if you will realize it. Asshole. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=59) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-muslim-marvelousnous/570243.md?page=61)