# More NC Elections Shenanigans **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256 "2018-06-17T13:28:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [April 2, 2019, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/261 "2019-04-02T21:41:05Z")
Oopsie: [Federal prosecutors have unsealed an indictment charging North Carolina State Republican Party Chairman Robin Hayes and three associates in an alleged bribery scheme involving campaign contributions to the state insurance commissioner](https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/02/politics/north-carolina-republicans-robin-hayes/index.html). Hayes and three business associates have been charged in a scheme to pay the commissioner of the North Carolina Department of Insurance at least $1.5 million in exchange for making staff changes and other things that would benefit their businesses. (And FWIW, the insurance commissioner is also a Republican and was the one who ratted them out). I have a feeling this is going to get bigger. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2019, 1:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/262 "2019-04-03T01:10:06Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > Oopsie: > > [Federal prosecutors have unsealed an indictment charging North Carolina State Republican Party Chairman Robin Hayes and three associates in an alleged bribery scheme involving campaign contributions to the state insurance commissioner](https://www.cnn.com/2019/04/02/politics/north-carolina-republicans-robin-hayes/index.html). > > Hayes and three business associates have been charged in a scheme to pay the commissioner of the North Carolina Department of Insurance at least $1.5 million in exchange for making staff changes and other things that would benefit their businesses. > > (And FWIW, the insurance commissioner is also a Republican and was the one who ratted them out). > > I have a feeling this is going to get bigger. I hope all these motherfuckers go down. Seriously, both parties have been corrupt in NC, but at this point the Republican party is starting to look like 1920s Chicago. ---
**Author:** ![somepumpkin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7feea3/32.png) [@somepumpkin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/somepumpkin)\ **Post date:** [May 21, 2019, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/263 "2019-05-21T16:29:17Z")
Updating this thread since we had our cute, little, special-election primary last week. And the winner is………… NOT Stoney Rushing, thank god. The Republican primary was won handily by The \*Honorable \*Dan Bishop. Here is a snippet of the \*values \*that Mr. Bishop brings to the race. > [@Ballotpedia](#): > > ``` > Bishop said he led the effort to get the successful North Carolina Voter ID Amendment on the ballot in 2018, which created a constitutional requirement that voters present a photo ID to vote in person.[18] > > ``` > > Bishop released an ad contrasting himself with McCready and Democrats in Congress. “These crazy liberal clowns. The things they say. The way they act. What they believe. They’re not funny. They’re downright scary. … I’ll go to Washington and fight these clowns for you,” Bishop said in the ad. > [https://ballotpedia.org/North\_Carolina’s\_9th\_Congressional\_District\_special\_election,\_2019](https://ballotpedia.org/North_Carolina%27s_9th_Congressional_District_special_election,_2019) ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/264 "2019-05-22T02:10:14Z")
“The things they say”. Yeah? Like what? What specifically do you find scary? ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2019, 4:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/265 "2019-05-22T04:41:04Z")
“Bad things. Scary things. Things against nature. Need I go on?” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/266 "2019-06-06T20:11:55Z")
[Gerrymander archvillain’s files](https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/06/us/north-carolina-gerrymander-republican.html?fbclid=IwAR3hCMsFyiAx56XJoppBQdUKuPPzVAyX16eM0ebESDaPiMt72M8jnqV4hk8) show that the NCGA lied to courts when they claimed they couldn’t draw neww maps in time for a special election: > [@](#): > > The Republicans told the federal court hearing the map case that they would not be able to draw new legislative districts and hold public hearings on them in time for a proposed special election in late 2017 or early 2018. In fact, Common Cause said, Mr. Hofeller’s files show that almost all the work was already done: proposed new boundaries had been drawn for more than 97 percent of the state’s proposed Senate districts and 90 percent of House districts. > > The federal court’s decision not to call a special election left the existing legislative gerrymander — and a veto-proof Republican majority in both the state House and Senate — in place for roughly an additional year. Seriously, there should be some people serving time. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/267 "2019-06-06T20:24:30Z")
Should be; aye. But will anyone? I doubt it. And will all the things done by the illegitimate legislature(s) be undone, or will they stand until another legislature can un-do them? I bet they stand until they are undone. So the perps win. In almost every resultant scenario, the perps win. When you look it that way, it kind of becomes more of a question of “why the fuck doesn’t everyone just do it this way?” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/268 "2019-06-06T20:43:25Z")
This just showed up on the AP: [Feds to finally examine 2016 NC poll books for hacking](https://apnews.com/083d4d4cecf14650a8427d72b1cc9408) > [@](#): > > More than two years after voter check-in software failed on Election Day in a North Carolina county, federal authorities will finally conduct a forensic analysis of electronic poll books to see if Russian military hackers who targeted the software provider may have tampered with registration information to disrupt voting. > > The U.S. Department of Homeland Security analysis of laptops used in Durham County is the first known federal probe of voting technology that malfunctioned during the 2016 election, when Russian hackers infiltrated election systems in several states, part of what special counsel Robert Mueller said was an effort to favor Donald Trump’s presidential campaign. > > The malfunction of VR Systems’ electronic poll book software forced officials in the heavily Democratic county to issue paper ballots and extend voting hours. How many voters may have been disenfranchised as a result is unknown. > [@](#): > > DHS spokeswoman Sara Sendek said the forensic examination, first reported by The Washington Post, along with other support her agency is providing North Carolina “may help to provide a better understanding of previous issues and help to secure the 2020 election.” > > The FBI did not immediately respond to requests for comment on whether it was investigating the Durham County poll book failure and whether it had examined the laptops’ contents. > [@](#): > > On Election Day in 2016, some Durham County voters complained that the electronic poll books registered them as having voted when they hadn’t. The company blamed the trouble on poorly trained poll workers and inadequate computer maintenance. A report by a security consultant hired by Durham County’s elections board supported that claim. > > “We believed then and now that the cause of the problem was poll worker error, and that a forensic analysis would prove it,” Martin said in an email. The company remains confident the DHS review will prove its voting software “was not breached or compromised.” ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [June 7, 2019, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/269 "2019-06-07T14:19:10Z")
Even if it was poll worker error, that still doesn’t let them off the hook. Who was in charge of training the poll workers? Did they all get the same training? Were they all using the same system? Who decided which poll workers were at what polling places? Were the errors equally easy to make for all voters? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/270 "2019-09-04T00:23:37Z")
Update: I want to be gracious in victory, especially the provisional victory we just achieved, so I won’t say [in your face, NCGA douchebags](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article234668747.html?fbclid=IwAR1wmk1CBTfy7Leehtyn2aGAlTaQ0cmJZDvYFhXoXjhnLd9Vz0iXeAmeqBE). That would be crass. > [@News and Observer](#): > > North Carolina’s political maps for the state legislature are unconstitutional and must be redrawn before the 2020 elections, a court has decided. > > A panel of judges struck down the maps Tuesday, in a 357-page ruling that focused on the level of political partisanship used to draw them. The maps were drawn in 2017 to replace previous maps, drawn in 2011, that had also been ruled unconstitutional. Both sets of maps were drawn by North Carolina’s Republican-led legislature. > > The judges found that “The North Carolina Supreme Court has long and consistently held that ‘our government is founded on the will of the people,’ that ‘their will is expressed by the ballot.’” > > And that fact helped the judges conclude that the maps violated the state constitution because “it is the carefully crafted maps, and not the will of the voters, that dictate the election outcomes in a significant number of legislative districts and, ultimately, the majority control of the General Assembly.” > > Tuesday’s decision may be the final word in this legal battle, since at least one top Republican lawmaker said he doesn’t plan to appeal the ruling. Berger is the one who said he wouldn’t appeal the ruling. I’d lay about 90% odds that he has a shitty trick ready for the occasion, something like, “Show up at the redistricting with a map all ready to submit, knowing it’ll get rejected, and plan to tie that new map up in appeals until it’s too late to have a new map ready for 2020.” But the court has said that the redistricting must happen only through public meetings, and that all computer screens used in the process must be visible to the public, and that they have two weeks. They sound thoroughly sick of the Republicans’ tricks, and I hope they’ll shoot down any stupid new trick Berger tries before he knows what’s happening. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 1:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/271 "2019-09-04T01:11:36Z")
Oh, man. [Here’s a PDF of the actual court requirements](https://ln2.sync.com/dl/c60019e20/n94ign3k-y9k9firt-j64rriyw-xpp6pzab/view/default/8511990750006?fbclid=IwAR1amtLHvC1qLi6keHhEJlLziOxhbwP1tYRCGttNyzrDffl87WHWBkH01G8). They are not fucking around. Read 'em if you want to see what a pissed off panel of judges sounds like. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 1:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/272 "2019-09-04T01:21:54Z")
I saw this today too. And I agree with everything you said. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/273 "2019-09-04T01:24:35Z")
As others have pointed out, we’ve had years of misrule because of the 2011 (and later 2017) maps, gerrymandering a supermajority. We’re not getting those years back, not getting back all the terrible decisions made by an illegitimate government during them. I’ve got a certain element of, “I want my father back you sonofabitch!” thinking going on. But we gotta move forward. And this provides a glimmer of hope. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/274 "2019-09-04T01:45:19Z")
Bad news is hope is rare, good news is it don’t take much. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 1:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/275 "2019-09-04T01:52:48Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Oh, man. [Here’s a PDF of the actual court requirements](https://ln2.sync.com/dl/c60019e20/n94ign3k-y9k9firt-j64rriyw-xpp6pzab/view/default/8511990750006?fbclid=IwAR1amtLHvC1qLi6keHhEJlLziOxhbwP1tYRCGttNyzrDffl87WHWBkH01G8). They are not fucking around. Read 'em if you want to see what a pissed off panel of judges sounds like. Dang! The snark starts in the _table of contents!_ > [@](#): > > D. The 2017 Plans Fail Strict Scrutiny—and Indeed Any Scrutiny ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/276 "2019-09-04T02:05:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Dang! The snark starts in the _table of contents!_ This shit has been dragging on for YEARS. These judges sound _done_. Oh! An update on the OP’s mention of Jen Mangrum. She lost her race against Berger, but last Friday I attended a local Meet and Greet for her as she’s running for state superintendent. The weasel we currently have is mired in about half a dozen different scandals and is deeply unpopular; I think she stands a pretty good chance of being our next superintendent. More hope. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/277 "2019-09-04T02:20:12Z")
Heck, weren’t they already court-ordered to re-draw the maps before 2018, which requirement they handily dealt with by simply ignoring it? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 2:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/278 "2019-09-04T02:31:45Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Heck, weren’t they already court-ordered to re-draw the maps before 2018, which requirement they handily dealt with by simply ignoring it? IIRC, they redrew the maps in a super-shitty way (in 2017); these were the maps challenged by this lawsuit. This court grabbed those maps, spat on them, ripped them into pieces, and stomped up and down on them. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/279 "2019-09-04T12:19:18Z")
Can the court order that elections not be held? :dubious: I’m at once aghast that this has continued on so long and dubious that anything will change. The GOP long ago came to understand the power of inactivity and I suspect they’ll continue to rely on inertia to combat any move towards justice. Huge thanks to **LHOD** for keeping the thread alive; if we don’t know about it we can’t care about it. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/280 "2019-09-04T14:08:36Z")
The court ordered they have the right to reschedule elections if the new maps are not approved in time. **Chronos** , they ordered that if the General Assembly doesn’t have new maps in 2 weeks, they have the authority to institute a special Referee to begin the process of drawing new maps _by the court_. That process is to begin already, such that if the General Assembly does not comply in two weeks, the court will take steps on their own to replace the maps. Ignoring them is _ **not** _ an option. Yes, these judges are definitely pissed off. I didn’t understand all the lingo about BVAP and _Gingles_ factors, except that it has something to do with racial makeup of districts and ensuring there are districts that Blacks can get elected in. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=15)