# More NC Elections Shenanigans **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256 "2018-06-17T13:28:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 15
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/281 "2019-09-04T15:46:45Z")
> [@Irishman](#): > > The court ordered they have the right to reschedule elections if the new maps are not approved in time. > > **Chronos** , they ordered that if the General Assembly doesn’t have new maps in 2 weeks, they have the authority to institute a special Referee to begin the process of drawing new maps _by the court_. That process is to begin already, such that if the General Assembly does not comply in two weeks, the court will take steps on their own to replace the maps. Ignoring them is _ **not** _ an option. > > Yes, these judges are definitely pissed off. Ignoring them sure seems like an option. Tell me again what happens if the GOP ignores the judges? They start forming a committee to draw new maps? Maps that will be challenged in courts for years? ---
**Author:** ![DSeid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dseid/32/20194_2.png) [@DSeid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSeid)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/282 "2019-09-04T16:24:19Z")
A referee is being appointed and if delays are attempted has the authority to so declare and to just create a new map themself. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 4:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/283 "2019-09-04T16:58:35Z")
And if that map gets tangled in litigation? ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/284 "2019-09-04T17:16:02Z")
My question is “_when_ the map get tangled in litigation?” ETA: btw, this was a NC state court, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/285 "2019-09-04T17:52:35Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > My question is “_when_ the map get tangled in litigation?” > > ETA: btw, this was a NC state court, right? I don’t know if there is much chance of this getting tangled up in litigation. There was a recent SCOTUS ruling that said Federal Courts can’t get involved in gerrymandering cases, if I understood correctly. That pretty much leaves it to the state courts. I don’t really see who the GOPers would have to appeal the maps to after this ruling. I of course could have misunderstood these rulings but that was my impression. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/286 "2019-09-04T18:08:40Z")
I’m not an attorney, but it seems to me that the crucial matter is, what is the default map? The court has summarily rejected the 2017 map. If the NC GOP draws a shitty partisan map, they’re violating a court order. The court will then draw their own map and declare it the official map. The GOP will challenge that map — _but it will be the default map_. Until the challenge is resolved, that’s the map that will be used. It’s almost exactly the same situation we’ve been in since like 2011, with the GOP drawing illegitimate maps that get challenged, except that instead of us voting under the challenged GOP map, we’ll be voting under the challenged court map. I can’t guarantee that’s how it’ll go down, but that’s my best understanding. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/287 "2019-09-04T18:17:07Z")
Oh–and our state supreme court is overwhelmingly Democratic, due to some serious fuckups by the GOP. They changed the courts elections to partisan elections, thinking that’d benefit them. A Democrat changed his affiliation to run as a Republican, splitting their vote and ruining their chances. That, and a series of other events of varying hilarity, have resulted in our having a 6-1 Democratic majority on the court. Any appeal they make will go only to the state supreme court, and won’t be looked at favorably there. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/288 "2019-09-04T18:29:11Z")
Excellent couple of posts, **LHOD** ; thanks for the clarification. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/289 "2019-09-04T19:38:12Z")
No problem! It’s really great to have some good news to report from our state for a change :). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 6, 2019, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/290 "2019-09-06T19:10:01Z")
The AP has a story about the special election: [NC election tests Trump clout, suburban flight from GOP](https://apnews.com/0d9d4aa922b142c4ace72a4934cee3ee). > [@](#): > > Both parties are pouring resources into the state, hoping to claim a morale-boosting win to juice candidate recruitment and fundraising. But the real x-factor is Trump himself, who parachutes into Fayetteville on Monday for an election-eve rally in hopes of securing a district he won by 11 points in 2016 and that Republicans have held since 1963. With Vice President Mike Pence also campaigning for Bishop on Monday, the race is testing Trump’s influence on voters and whether Democrats can sustain the momentum that powered their midterm election wins. > > “This is a pretty Republican district. This is not a seat you’ll be able to explain away very well” if Bishop loses, said former Rep. Tom Davis, R-Va., who once chaired the House GOP campaign committee. A defeat would mean “Republicans are in trouble in the suburbs,” he said. > [@](#): > > Now just 30 percent of women approve how Trump is handling the presidency, compared to 42 percent of men, according to last month’s Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research poll. Also ominous for Republicans, last fall’s AP VoteCast survey of more than 115,000 midterm voters nationwide showed suburban residents backed Democratic over GOP House candidates, 55 percent to 44 percent. > > A McCready win or even a narrow Bishop victory could suggest that GOP hemorrhaging of voters ringing cities is continuing, even in the South. > > “If we are even close in this one, that spells trouble for them in 2020,” said Democratic consultant AJ Lenar, who isn’t involved in the race. The GOP seems to agree, since they’re pouring money into the contest: > [@](#): > > But top outside GOP groups including the National Republican Congressional Committee and the Congressional Leadership Fund have unleashed over $6 million, vastly outspending their Democratic counterparts. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2019, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/291 "2019-09-09T21:40:52Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > Berger is the one who said he wouldn’t appeal the ruling. I’d lay about 90% odds that he has a shitty trick ready for the occasion Can I call it, [or can I call it?](https://www.facebook.com/JeffJacksonNC/photos/a.258554204347175/1106894762846444/?type=3&theater) > [@NC State Senator Jeff Jackson](#): > > This is the redistricting process being proposed by Senate Republicans solely for the purpose of complying with the court’s ruling (not a new permanent redistricting process). > > Summary: It gives the roughly 1,000 Senate maps drawn by the opposing expert from the court case (which were drawn without the use of political data to demonstrate to the court how different the map would look) to our bipartisan legislative staff and asks them to recommend the one that most fully complies with the court’s criteria. Then it’s open to amendment in committee, then a full Senate vote. Committee meeting starts again in 20 minutes. Discussion is over this method. Keep in mind: the committee is 10 R and 5 D. I don’t know whether the court will allow this method. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/292 "2019-09-10T00:10:07Z")
Oh, shit. I totally misread that post. My bad. I was thinking (despite quoting words to the contrary) that the 1,000 maps were from the dead Republican partisan who designed the gerrymander. That’s completely the opposite of the truth: instead, those 1,000 maps were designed by an expert hired by the people **challenging** the gerrymandering. On the one hand, I apologize if I gave the wrong impression. On the other hand, reviewing what I quoted, the plain meaning of those quoted words is so clear that I hope I’m the only one who misread them so badly. [Here’s a more complete article](https://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/article234894132.html). It also includes a quote from Dan Blue, who’s volunteering himself to demonstrate that NC Democrats have some real shitbirds in their ranks as well. (Fortunately he’s getting called out as a shitbird by so many Democrats that he’s backpedaling like crazy). ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/293 "2019-09-10T01:22:15Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > On the one hand, I apologize if I gave the wrong impression. On the other hand, reviewing what I quoted, the plain meaning of those quoted words is so clear that I hope I’m the only one who misread them so badly. I had to read it twice to make sure they weren’t talking about the dead guy. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/294 "2019-09-10T02:03:55Z")
I am wondering, after reading some more comments: 1. Whether the staffers reviewing the 1,000 maps will do so in view of the public; and 2. If they don’t, whether the court will find them in violation of the order. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2019, 4:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/295 "2019-09-10T04:25:50Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I am wondering, after reading some more comments: > > 1. Whether the staffers reviewing the 1,000 maps will do so in view of the public; and > 2. If they don’t, whether the court will find them in violation of the order. Having read most of the courts decision I am under the impression that anyone who fails to follow their order TO. THE. LETTER. will find their map tossed out and a court imposed map put in place. They seemed to be in a mood. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/296 "2019-09-11T15:14:53Z")
I am so furious right now. About two months ago, the NC General Assembly (NCGA) submitted a totally unacceptable budget to the governor. He vetoed it, and because the Republicans lack a supermajority, his veto was sure to stand on the override vote. So Republicans didn’t hold it. For two months, they’ve refused to vote on overriding the veto, because they knew they’d lose. They tried all sorts of tricks to peel off Democrats from sustaining the veto, but they couldn’t get enough. One Democrat was showing up day after day after chemotherapy sessions to make sure she could sustain the vote. Another was rescheduling his army reserve duty to make sure he could be there. Which brings us to today. Republicans said there wouldn’t be a vote today, so that members could go to 9/11 remembrance ceremonies. Most Democrats left to go to ceremonies this morning, or were otherwise not present, in order to conduct other business. Speaker of the House Tim Moore apparently told Republicans to hang back; and when there were only 9 Democrats left in the chamber, held an override vote. The vote succeeded 55-9. The state Senate will be voting this afternoon. In theory. I know they’ve had a lot of lows, but this is a new low for them, using respect for 9/11 to circumvent democracy. [Story here](https://www.wral.com/house-overrides-cooper-s-budget-veto/18626626/). ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/297 "2019-09-11T15:17:24Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I am so furious right now. > > About two months ago, the NC General Assembly (NCGA) submitted a totally unacceptable budget to the governor. He vetoed it, and because the Republicans lack a supermajority, his veto was sure to stand on the override vote. > > So Republicans didn’t hold it. > > For two months, they’ve refused to vote on overriding the veto, because they knew they’d lose. They tried all sorts of tricks to peel off Democrats from sustaining the veto, but they couldn’t get enough. One Democrat was showing up day after day after chemotherapy sessions to make sure she could sustain the vote. Another was rescheduling his army reserve duty to make sure he could be there. > > Which brings us to today. > > Republicans said there wouldn’t be a vote today, so that members could go to 9/11 remembrance ceremonies. Most Democrats left to go to ceremonies this morning, or were otherwise not present, in order to conduct other business. > > Speaker of the House Tim Moore apparently told Republicans to hang back; and when there were only 9 Democrats left in the chamber, held an override vote. The vote succeeded 55-9. > > The state Senate will be voting this afternoon. In theory. > > I know they’ve had a lot of lows, but this is a new low for them, using respect for 9/11 to circumvent democracy. > > [Story here](https://www.wral.com/house-overrides-cooper-s-budget-veto/18626626/). Wow. That’s low. The Democratic House members should have been prepared for this, though. This is an all-out (political) knife fight, and the only rules are what can be gotten away with. Everyone needs to be ready for this kind of awful stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Parker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/35a633/32.png) [@Richard\_Parker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Parker)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/298 "2019-09-11T15:38:10Z")
Yeah, this is obviously completely despicable assuming the facts are as reported. But how useless is the Democratic party? The NC-GOP is seven battles into the cold civil war and the NC-Dems have barely figured out there’s a war on. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/299 "2019-09-11T15:40:37Z")
I am totally unsurprised by this maneuver. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/300 "2019-09-11T15:43:12Z")
Assuming the NC Senate D’s went to the 9/11 ceremonies, couldn’t they make it back by the afternoon? (assuming the ceremonies are local) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=14) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=16)