# More NC Elections Shenanigans **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256 "2018-06-17T13:28:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/301 "2019-09-11T15:43:22Z")
How is that even possible? The House can just say “Ok, vote now!” and then end voting after 5 minutes or whatever? ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/302 "2019-09-11T15:45:14Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > How is that even possible? The House can just say “Ok, vote now!” and then end voting after 5 minutes or whatever? Presumably, yes, the 64 people present was enough for a quorum, and the House speaker can say, “vote now.” ---
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/303 "2019-09-11T18:51:42Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Assuming the NC Senate D’s went to the 9/11 ceremonies, couldn’t they make it back by the afternoon? (assuming the ceremonies are local) Republicans hold a 34-16 advantage in the NC Senate, which, presumably, is enough to override the veto. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/304 "2019-09-11T19:01:27Z")
I read it, I see it, and still can’t believe it. Any more shit like this and I’ll be chewing through the leather straps for breakfast. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/305 "2019-09-11T19:17:29Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … Republicans said there wouldn’t be a vote today… This seems to be the point of contention. There seem to be two relevant Republicans here: House Speaker Tim Moore, who has maintained “no announcement was made Tuesday that there would be no votes held Wednesday morning”, and House Rules Chairman David Lewis, who House Minority Leader Darren Jackson claimed in a press conference “Lewis told him Tuesday the House would take no recorded votes on the floor until 1 p.m. Wednesday”. Lewis disputed that claim (“At no time do I recall Rep. Jackson asking if there would be no recorded votes at all”) and it appears that afterwards Jackson backed off his initial claim: > [@](#): > > Although Jackson called on Lewis and other Republicans to undo their vote out of a sense of fairness, he later told a WRAL News reporter that he doesn’t believe Lewis misled him Tuesday night. Somewhat complicating the matter is the fact that [Lewis texted a reporter “No votes at 830.”](https://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/state/nccapitol/2019/09/11/18627204/IMG_1772-DMID1-5k4bxacm3-245x360.jpg) Overall, it appears that the claim “Republicans said there wouldn’t be a vote today” is not well-supported by the available evidence. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/306 "2019-09-11T19:20:30Z")
> [@Railer13](#): > > Republicans hold a 34-16 advantage in the NC Senate, which, presumably, is enough to override the veto. [Your numbers are off, I think](https://ballotpedia.org/2019_North_Carolina_legislative_session): it’s 29-21. I think they need one Democrat to switch to get the 60% they need for a veto override. Folks are calling Democratic senators like crazy to urge them to hold fast. Speaker Tim Moore’s phone line is burning up, both from furious callers and from the heat from the sulfurous fumes his body’s giving off. Educators in the Piedmont are organizing emergency actions in Raleigh. This is a lit match. I’m not yet sure whether it’s gonna fizzle out, or set something on fire. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/307 "2019-09-11T19:28:33Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > [Your numbers are off, I think](https://ballotpedia.org/2019_North_Carolina_legislative_session): it’s 29-21. I think they need one Democrat to switch to get the 60% they need for a veto override. > > Folks are calling Democratic senators like crazy to urge them to hold fast. Speaker Tim Moore’s phone line is burning up, both from furious callers and from the heat from the sulfurous fumes his body’s giving off. Educators in the Piedmont are organizing emergency actions in Raleigh. > > This is a lit match. I’m not yet sure whether it’s gonna fizzle out, or set something on fire. Hopefully the Democrats at least learn from this that they must expect every possible dirty trick. They should assume the worst at all times from their Republican colleagues. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/308 "2019-09-11T19:38:04Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hopefully the Democrats at least learn from this that they must expect every possible dirty trick. They should assume the worst at all times from their Republican colleagues. I think 9/11-- nine-motherfucking-eleven – lulled them into a sense of false decency. Surely Republicans who have spent the last half-century cloaking themselves in a jingoistic patriotism wouldn’t stoop so low as to use commemorative services for 9/11 as a chance for a dirty trick? I understand why it fooled them. At this point, there’s no floor to their indecency. There’s nothing they won’t do. This should be making national news, and this vote needs a short name to brand Republicans with. But all I can come up with is the 9/11 vote. I hope there’s someone better at branding than me, because everyone who participated in this dirty trick needs to have that in their biography and in political ads against them. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/309 "2019-09-11T19:51:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Hopefully the Democrats at least learn from this that they must expect every possible dirty trick. They should assume the worst at all times from their Republican colleagues. I don’t think it was a “dirty trick” at all. Here’s what the Speaker had to say, from LHoD’s article: > [@](#): > > “If they didn’t want it to pass, all they had to do was show up for work,” Moore said during an afternoon news conference. “Our job as a House member is to be on that floor, in that seat, near that green or that red button when we take up matters.” > > Moore repeatedly maintained during the question-and-answer session that no announcement was made Tuesday that there would be no votes held Wednesday morning. The budget bill was on the published House calendar for action Wednesday, as it has been for weeks without coming up for a vote. > > “I made clear that, if I saw an opportunity to [override the veto], I’m going to do it,” he said. “The bill was properly noticed. Procedures were properly followed.” > > … Moore has made it clear for weeks that he would call the override vote whenever the opportunity arose. > > “The speaker said at any given opportunity he would call it,” longtime Rep. Julia Howard, R-Davie, said. “The opportunity was there, and he called it.” ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/310 "2019-09-11T19:56:02Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think it was a “dirty trick” at all. Here’s what the Speaker had to say, from LHoD’s article: Oh, that is some fucking bullshit. Moore is deceiving you, and if you’re believing him, it’s [redacted]. No, no announcement was made about votes. Nobody said there were announcements: they said there were private assurances made. Multiple people, including reporters, received those assurances. Moore used 9/11 remembrance ceremonies to push something through that he couldn’t otherwise do. He’s a weasel, and I think [redacted]. Edit: and you know what, for some out-of-stater to come in and piously tell me that this is all right? Unless you want to continue the conversation in the Pit, I’m not allowed to say what I think about that. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/311 "2019-09-11T20:03:28Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > I think 9/11-- nine-motherfucking-eleven – lulled them into a sense of false decency. Surely Republicans who have spent the last half-century cloaking themselves in a jingoistic patriotism wouldn’t stoop so low as to use commemorative services for 9/11 as a chance for a dirty trick? > > I understand why it fooled them. At this point, there’s no floor to their indecency. There’s nothing they won’t do. > > This should be making national news, and this vote needs a short name to brand Republicans with. But all I can come up with is the 9/11 vote. I hope there’s someone better at branding than me, because everyone who participated in this dirty trick needs to have that in their biography and in political ads against them. It’s utterly despicable, but they still should have seen it coming. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/312 "2019-09-11T20:07:53Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I don’t think it was a “dirty trick” at all. Here’s what the Speaker had to say, from LHoD’s article: So holding off the vote indefinitely, waiting for the one moment when a representative is sick or gets caught in traffic or attends an _important memorial service_, is just fine and dandy by you? Short-circuiting democracy and throwing ethics out the window is acceptable as long as you like the results? Whatever happened to “elections have consequences”? Apparently they only have consequences if you can’t figure out how to game the system. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/313 "2019-09-11T20:09:16Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Presumably, yes, the 64 people present was enough for a quorum, and the House speaker can say, “vote now.” This seems strange to me. There’s no amount of time given for people to get back to vote or anything like that? Seems like all the Republicans, or Democrats for that matter, could just make a pact to meet at midnight and start passing all kinds of stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/314 "2019-09-11T20:12:14Z")
Wasn’t there an episode of The West Wing in which this sort of scenario played out in the US Congress? And then didn’t the UK House of Commons do something very similar in real life? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/315 "2019-09-11T20:19:16Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > This seems strange to me. There’s no amount of time given for people to get back to vote or anything like that? > > Seems like all the Republicans, or Democrats for that matter, could just make a pact to meet at midnight and start passing all kinds of stuff. This was a scheduled session. However, the NCGA has had “skeleton sessions” like this for weeks. Because they refused to vote on the override,a vote they knew they’d lose, they were spending thousands of NC tax dollars every day to force legislators to show up, only to be gaveled out five minutes later, after formally postponing the vote. Dems were showing up, knowing that if they didn’t, the override would be held. Today Dems received assurances that the vote wouldn’t be held, so that folks could make it to remembrance ceremonies. Those assurances were lies. The vote that had been postponed for two months was suddenly held, in contradiction to those assurances, and to common decency. Dems maybe should’ve known that common decency is something that all 55 Republican representatives have dispensed with. It’s sometimes hard to remember that your political opponents really aren’t respectable people with a shred of honor. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/316 "2019-09-11T20:20:43Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > This was a scheduled session. However, the NCGA has had “skeleton sessions” like this for weeks. Because they refused to vote on the override,a vote they knew they’d lose, they were spending thousands of NC tax dollars every day to force legislators to show up, only to be gaveled out five minutes later, after formally postponing the vote. Dems were showing up, knowing that if they didn’t, the override would be held. > > Today Dems received assurances that the vote wouldn’t be held, so that folks could make it to remembrance ceremonies. Those assurances were lies. The vote that had been postponed for two months was suddenly held, in contradiction to those assurances, and to common decency. > > Dems maybe should’ve known that common decency is something that all 55 Republican representatives have dispensed with. It’s sometimes hard to remember that your political opponents really aren’t respectable people with a shred of honor. Definitely shady. And for someone to say “I don’t think it was a “dirty trick” at all” is ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/317 "2019-09-11T20:22:20Z")
Speaking of the budget, just what exactly is in the budget? ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/318 "2019-09-11T20:32:24Z")
This kind of thing is awful, but if it’s a surprise to anyone, then I don’t think you’ve been paying attention. This stuff is the norm. Maybe it shouldn’t be the norm, but Democrats should recognize that it is right now. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/319 "2019-09-11T20:39:58Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … No, no announcement was made about votes. Nobody said there were announcements: they said there were private assurances made. Multiple people, including reporters, received those assurances. … Who? You said “Republicans” (plural) “said there wouldn’t be a vote today”. In examining the issue, which additional Republicans, aside from Lewis, said anything of the sort? AFAICT, he was the only one, so you’re wrong right from the outset. You might have something to hang your hat on if the lone Republican that did say something along those lines was the Speaker, but it wasn’t even that, it was just a committee chair. So let’s examine your “multiple people, including reporters, received those assurances” claim. You seem to have a habit of using plural nouns when singular nouns are warranted. “reporters”? really? Which additional reporters, aside from the one single reporter from WRAL “received those assurances”? The article says: > [@](#): > > Lewis did acknowledge telling a WRAL News reporter via text Tuesday night that there would be no votes at the 8:30 a.m. session. But he said that’s because he didn’t think there would be any. He wasn’t on the floor during the override vote. AFAICT, that’s the only person that “received those assurances”. As I noted earlier, initially Jackson claimed he had, which I suppose is where you get “multiple people” from, but Jackson himself appears to have retracted that claim. The article says “he doesn’t believe Lewis lied or misled him about the morning session.” ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [September 11, 2019, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/320 "2019-09-11T20:44:13Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … > Today Dems received assurances that the vote wouldn’t be held, so that folks could make it to remembrance ceremonies. Those assurances were lies. The vote that had been postponed for two months was suddenly held, in contradiction to those assurances, and to common decency. > > Dems maybe should’ve known that common decency is something that all 55 Republican representatives have dispensed with. It’s sometimes hard to remember that your political opponents really aren’t respectable people with a shred of honor. “Happy September 11th!” from your local Republican party. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=17)