# More NC Elections Shenanigans **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256 "2018-06-17T13:28:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 19
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/361 "2019-09-12T20:07:11Z")
These jackasses are many things, but “stupid” or “politically unsavvy” aren’t among them. If anything, politically unsavvy should be used to describe NC Dems. The bulk of our gains lately have IMO been due to work by citizen activists like NCAE, the Moral Monday Movement, the ACLU, and others. Our Democratic party has some good members, but I’m not always impressed by them. In case folks are wondering about whether the Republican party really made the claim about no vote, I wanna break it down: 1. The person in charge of that decision would be the House Rules Chairman David Lewis (R). 2. House Minority leader Darren Jackson claims that he asked Lewis and was verbally that there wouldn’t be a vote, and he and the Dems relied on that assurance. 2a) Lewis claims he just said there wouldn’t be votes on two other issues. Hmm. 3. WRAL reporter Laura Leslie has released [a text exchange between her and Lewis](https://www.wral.com/how-dare-you-do-this-mr-speaker-in-surprise-move-house-overrides-budget-veto/18626626/), in which he says, in response to her question, “No votes at 8:30”. 3a) Lewis admits to telling her this, but claims it’s because he thought there wouldn’t be any votes. Lewis’s story, then, is that when he was talking to Democrats, he told them there wouldn’t be votes on two mini-items, but when he was talking to the news, he told them there wouldn’t be any votes, because his understanding of what votes there would be were different when he was undocumented and when his words were documented. Some folks might be naive enough to believe his conflicting claims. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/362 "2019-09-12T21:16:09Z")
He lied. ETA: And as we’ve seen so often in recent years, I doubt there will be any punishment, no recriminations or any tangible consequences at all for this. In fact, I won’t be surprised to find that he and the NC GOP get even more funding, more votes and more support because of this maneuver. I would urge all Democratic officials to look on all GOP officials (and supporters) as untrustworthy in any way for the foreseeable future. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/363 "2019-09-12T21:57:16Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > … 1) The person in charge of that decision would be the House Rules Chairman David Lewis (R). … Regarding this point, are you sure? Lewis wasn’t even in the chamber when the controversial vote was held. It seem like it’s up to the Speaker of the House, Tim Moore, that he is “the person in charge of that decision”. ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/364 "2019-09-12T23:45:00Z")
So it was all just a big misunderstanding and purely a coincidence that the Republicans decided to hold a very important vote that they knew the Democrats would block at a time when it just happened that most of the Democrats had thought that no votes would be held while it just happened that all of the Republicans decided to show up. And the speaker just didn’t happen notice that most of the opposition was missing before he decided to call the vote. Just a wild crazy coincidence, nothing the least bit underhanded here. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [September 12, 2019, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/365 "2019-09-12T23:51:03Z")
Did the state senate vote? ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/366 "2019-09-13T01:01:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Did the state senate vote? Not today. I’m sure as soon as they can identify their own slick move, they’ll be all over it. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/367 "2019-09-13T01:39:53Z")
It would have been nice if they voted today. The Dems have enough votes to defeat it if team R plays it straight. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/368 "2019-09-13T01:45:40Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It would have been nice if they voted today. The Dems have enough votes to defeat it if team R plays it straight. “If team R plays it straight” BWAHAHAHAHAHA Oh man, you got me good there. Yeah, Dems have the votes to sustain a veto, and in normal times, Republicans would hold that pro forma vote, and then move on to phase 2, i.e., negotiating a compromise. Cooper’s been trying to get them to that stage. But they don’t want to admit that they lack the power they held for nearly a decade. They’re trying every dirty trick they can think of to subvert democracy (handy reminder: a minority of Tarheels voted for Republicans in 2018, and the map they were elected under was just declared unconstitutionally gerrymandered, calling into doubt the legitimacy of their governance). I’d lay even odds on their figuring out another dirty trick that lets them override the veto. They ain’t stupid, just awful. ---
**Author:** ![str8cashhomie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/7cd45c/32.png) [@str8cashhomie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/str8cashhomie)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/369 "2019-09-13T03:46:07Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > What democrats need to understand is that this is what we’re dealing with. These are not people who are interested in fair play. They do not care what norms they break. They will lie, cheat, defraud, and more for the sake of political power. And anyone thinking that their promises are worth a damn needs to wake the fuck up. I think the main mistake the Dems make is that they think the public will see them taking the high road and the Republicans “fighting dirty”. The truth is that most Americans are disinterested, and the ones who engage with politics are usually the most partisan. Combine this with the generally cynical attitude most Americans have about politics and trying to sell people on “our party respects norms” just doesn’t work. The Dems themselves should fight dirty when it makes sense. It’s a lot easier to sell a swing voter on “we fought for the Medicaid expansion, and now your medical expenses are more manageable” than “well we didn’t actually get you the Medicaid expansion, but we took the high road against the dirty tricksters who blocked it and we’re hoping you can elect more of us to keep taking the high road.” ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 3:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/370 "2019-09-13T03:49:34Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It would have been nice if they voted today. The Dems have enough votes to defeat it if team R plays it straight. Why would you even think that, let alone type it and then post it? When have the NC GOP, in recent memory, been trustworthy? ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/371 "2019-09-13T14:53:42Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > Why would you even think that, let alone type it and then post it? When have the NC GOP, in recent memory, been trustworthy? It would have been nice if the veto override was voted down yesterday and that would have happened if the Republicans played it straight. I made no comments about their trustworthiness or the likelihood of that happening. What they’re doing is a perversion of democracy even if it’s technically within the rules. It would be nice if they stopped acting that way. That’s completely orthogonal to the fact that that almost certainly will not happen. ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/372 "2019-09-13T18:10:19Z")
> [@Lance\_Turbo](#): > > It would have been nice if the veto override was voted down yesterday and that would have happened if the Republicans played it straight. > > I made no comments about their trustworthiness or the likelihood of that happening. What they’re doing is a perversion of democracy even if it’s technically within the rules. > > It would be nice if they stopped acting that way. That’s completely orthogonal to the fact that that almost certainly will not happen. What did you mean by “if team R plays it straight” if you did not mean “if team R is trustworthy”? ---
**Author:** ![divemaster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/divemaster/32/78_2.png) [@divemaster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/divemaster)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 7:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/373 "2019-09-13T19:39:24Z")
But the Raleigh News & Observer reports that only 2 Dems were at a 9/11 ceremony. > [@](#): > > WHERE WERE DEMOCRATS? > Some headlines suggested that Democrats were at events commemorating the 9/11 attacks — the vote was taken at roughly the same time as the national moment of silence. But The News & Observer has confirmed only two Democrats attended 9/11 events. > One was Cooper, who spoke at the North Carolina National Guard’s Sept. 11 commemoration in Raleigh. > > The other was Rep. Garland Pierce, a Scotland County Democrat, who says he attended a [different] event, in Raeford. They also report > [@](#): > > DID REPUBLICANS BREAK ANY RULES? > No. The budget override was on the calendar for Wednesday’s morning session. Maybe there were lies and dirty tricks. But the meme that dems couldn’t vote b/c they were at a 9/11 ceremony is false, if the Raleigh News & Observer is to be believed. Even the _Washington Post_ issued a clarification, but I can’t seem to find the exact wording at the moment. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/374 "2019-09-13T20:11:54Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#): > > What did you mean by “if team R plays it straight” if you did not mean “if team R is trustworthy”? I meant, “if team R plays it straight.” If team R plays it straight, good things will happen. Team R will almost certainly not play it straight, in part, because they are untrustworthy. I don’t think they are trustworthy, and I don’t think it’s likely that they will behave in a trustworthy manner. ---
**Author:** ![Lance\_Turbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lance_turbo/32/6156_2.png) [@Lance\_Turbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lance_Turbo)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2019, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/375 "2019-09-13T20:20:00Z")
Let me put it this way… I said, “If A happens then B will happen.” I didn’t say anything one way or the other about the likelihood of A happening. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2019, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/376 "2019-09-14T02:12:31Z")
Perhaps our secular cynicism has blinded us. We see dark conspiracy in an interlocking web of unintended consequence and random coincidence. But might it not have a more benign source? I speak, of course, of the divine hand of Providence, that most Supreme Court, which has for so long graced the GOP with approval and assistance! For so _very_ long! ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2019, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/377 "2019-09-27T17:57:13Z")
[Friday’s](https://www.wral.com/former-state-gop-chair-pleading-guilty-to-lying-to-fbi-in-bribery-case/18661683/) a [two-fer](https://www.wral.com/eric-holder-affiliated-group-challenging-nc-congressional-district-map/18660222/): > [@WRAL](#): > > Former North Carolina congressman and state Republican Party chairman Robin Hayes has agreed to plead guilty to lying to the FBI during a sting that netted indictments against Hayes, a wealthy Durham businessman and two associates. > > A signed plea agreement has been filed with the court, and a plea hearing is scheduled for Wednesday, according to a spokeswoman for the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of North Carolina in Charlotte. > > Hayes isn’t pleading guilty to the underlying bribery charges in this case. Investor Greg Lindberg and the other co-defendants in this case initially pleaded not guilty to those charges. Hayes faced the additional charge of lying as FBI agents investigated whether Lindberg and his team tried to bribe state Insurance Commissioner Mike Causey. and > [@WRAL](#): > > A nonprofit affiliated with former U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder’s nationwide push to end gerrymandering filed a lawsuit in Wake County on Friday challenging North Carolina’s congressional district map. > > The National Redistricting Foundation is backing a lawsuit filed by individuals in each of the state’s 13 congressional districts, alleging that the General Assembly illegally drew the district lines in 2016 to favor Republican candidates. > … > GOP lawmakers included partisan advantage among the criteria used to draw the 2016 congressional district map. Rep. David Lewis, R-Harnett, who oversaw the redistricting effort, was quoted at the time that he wanted a 10-3 map in favor of Republicans only because he couldn’t figure out a way to fairly draw an 11-2 map. Nice quote, David–thanks for saying that in your out loud voice! By the way, David Lewis is the dude who earlier this month said there wouldn’t be any budget-override votes on the morning of 9/11. I don’t know he has a lot of friends left in Raleigh. This is good news in the same way that finding out your antibiotics are starting to clear up your strep infection is good news. You wish you didn’t have the bad news in the first place, but hey, at least things are starting to look up. ---
**Author:** ![romansperson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/romansperson/32/17100_2.png) [@romansperson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/romansperson)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/378 "2019-10-29T00:29:54Z")
And … [Court throws out North Carolina’s congressional district maps](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/court-throws-out-north-carolina-s-congressional-district-maps-n1073081) > [@](#): > > North Carolina cannot use the existing maps for its congressional districts in next year’s elections, a state court ruled late Monday, declaring them to be invalid partisan gerrymanders. > [@](#): > > The panel stopped short of ordering the legislature to draw new maps but said disruptions could be avoided “should the General Assembly, on its own initiative, act immediately and will all due haste to enact new congressional districts.” It’s almost like they saying: ‘So, what now, bitches?’ Stay tuned. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/379 "2019-10-29T18:57:56Z")
> [@romansperson](#): > > And … > > [Court throws out North Carolina’s congressional district maps](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/court-throws-out-north-carolina-s-congressional-district-maps-n1073081) > > It’s almost like they saying: ‘So, what now, bitches?’ > > Stay tuned. It cracks me up that so many GOP operatives were delighted when the SCOTUS said they couldn’t get involved in partisan gerrymanders and here we are with the court in NC saying, “No assholes, you can’t do this.” Unless I’m missing something I don’t see where the GOP could appeal and have a chance of getting this tossed out. Best news I heard in weeks. Let’s hope it spreads to other states. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [October 29, 2019, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/380 "2019-10-29T19:05:43Z")
Thanks for bumping this thread! Yeah, this is a good basic ruling, but I was a little confused about the lack of a clear order. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=18) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=20)