# More NC Elections Shenanigans **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [June 17, 2018, 1:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256 "2018-06-17T13:28:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/141 "2018-12-12T21:56:53Z")
Their saving grace. When in comes to cunning and covert skulduggery, they suck at it. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [December 12, 2018, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/142 "2018-12-12T22:58:29Z")
Isn’t it also possible that they hold a new election, Harris wins, and then the House still refuses to seat him? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 8:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/143 "2018-12-13T20:31:23Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > Isn’t it also possible that they hold a new election, Harris wins, and then the House still refuses to seat him? It’s technically possible, of course. But why would the House do that, unless there was more skulduggery in the new election that called its legitimacy into question? Which seems unlikely, because the redo won’t be one of 470 elections for Congress, not to mention the thousands of state-level races last month, but just one election all by itself that everyone will be watching closely. ---
**Author:** ![crucible](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/5f8ce5/32.png) [@crucible](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crucible)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/144 "2018-12-13T20:34:41Z")
The house, absent some evidence of fraud on the part of the commission, will seat whoever the election commission certifies ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/145 "2018-12-13T20:41:45Z")
[538’s article on the subject](https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-fight-over-election-fraud-in-north-carolina-could-drag-on-for-months/). I note that the FBI is involved, which is something I was curious about but don’t think I asked: at what point does election fraud violate federal, not state, law? Is the fact that it’s an election for a federal office significant, or are elections purely a state matter no matter what? The biggest takeaway from this, IMO, should be that folks turn attention away from the non-issue of in-person electoral fraud and toward the very real danger of organized fraud by absentee ballot. Given this guy’s continued success in Bladen County, and given stories I’ve been hearing about similar shenanigans in Western NC (I’m having trouble digging up links now–do others have them?), it seems really likely that this isn’t the only dude committing these crimes. We need to get rid of this sort of thing. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/146 "2018-12-13T21:06:50Z")
info on vote buying in Western NC [https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/article222916170.html#storylink=hpdigest](https://www.newsobserver.com/opinion/article222916170.html#storylink=hpdigest) ---
**Author:** ![Buck\_Godot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/buck_godot/32/6573_2.png) [@Buck\_Godot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Buck_Godot)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/147 "2018-12-13T21:30:36Z")
> [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](#): > > The biggest takeaway from this, IMO, should be that folks turn attention away from the non-issue of in-person electoral fraud and toward the very real danger of organized fraud by absentee ballot. Can the fix for organized absentee voter fraud be set up in such a way so as to disenfranchise Democratic voters? If not then I don’t think that you will get a whole lot of traction from Republican law makers. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/148 "2018-12-13T22:04:50Z")
> [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Can the fix for organized absentee voter fraud be set up in such a way so as to disenfranchise Democratic voters? If not then I don’t think that you will get a whole lot of traction from Republican law makers. Wasn’t that what they did in this case? I thought they were collecting absentee ballots in areas with likely high Democrat voting via absentee ballot and then just not turning them in. I thought that was partially how this came to light - the number of absentee ballots requested and not turned in was abnormally high. Am I understanding this correctly? ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 10:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/149 "2018-12-13T22:12:16Z")
> [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](#): > > Wasn’t that what they did in this case? I thought they were collecting absentee ballots in areas with likely high Democrat voting via absentee ballot and then just not turning them in. I thought that was partially how this came to light - the number of absentee ballots requested and not turned in was abnormally high. Am I understanding this correctly? That’s what they’re doing. I think Buck is saying that Republicans will only stop absentee voter fraud if they can do so in a way that also disenfranchises Democratic voters. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/150 "2018-12-13T23:36:53Z")
How about credit rating? Nothing racist about _that_! ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/151 "2018-12-14T15:11:47Z")
looks like Harris hired the guy who was doing the fraud. If that is proven then he will have to bow out and they will have to pick another GOP guy to run ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/152 "2018-12-14T15:16:32Z")
So what are some possible solutions to absentee fraud? Voter education could be one part. Have large clear text on the ballot stating that anyone who tries to collect their ballot (as opposed to it being mailed) is committing a felony. Absentee voting is ripe for vote buying. The only solution I can see for this is severe penalties for those who are caught and maybe rewards for whistle blowers. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/153 "2018-12-14T19:32:23Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > So what are some possible solutions to absentee fraud? Here’s my ideas: 1. Require voters to seal the ballot envelope and sign their name _across the seal_, before handing the ballot and envelope to someone collecting the ballots. (This could be defeated, obviously, but it would be a lot of work for each ballot, which would limit its use.) 2. Excepting persons collecting ballots of persons of those they live with or are closely related to, require persons collecting ballots to get some sort of ID from the Secretary of State’s office authorizing them to do so, that they’d have to wear and display while collecting ballots. 3. Have each ballot come with an identifying number, with a check-in process so that you could go online and verify that your ballot had been turned in. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 14, 2018, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/154 "2018-12-14T22:18:00Z")
hearing on Jan 11 for the case which means Harris does not take office Jan 3rd ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/155 "2018-12-15T04:13:24Z")
[AP story about an interview that Harris did](https://www.apnews.com/d78f6a9cb93f47be80a0c11f89686118) and [the actual interview](http://www.wbtv.com/2018/12/14/exclusive-mark-harris-addresses-voter-fraud-allegations-race-th-congressional-district/). > [@](#): > > In his interview with WBTV Friday, Harris confirmed that it was his decision to hire Dowless for his campaign. > > “I did. And readily,” Harris responded when asked if he, in fact, was the person who decided to hire Dowless onto his 2018 campaign. > Harris said the decision came after his primary loss to Republican Congressman Robert Pittenger in the 2016 campaign, when the candidate who finished third in that contest handily won the absentee ballots in Bladen County. > > Harris said that he believed he was hiring Dowless to run an operation that encouraged voters to request absentee ballots and then, later, helped them cast those ballots by witnessing them and making sure voters put them in the mail. > > At no time, Harris said, did he think Dowless was doing anything illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/156 "2018-12-15T05:01:37Z")
Ah, so he just happened to hire a person he knew was associated with an anomalous result in an earlier election. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/157 "2018-12-15T07:29:35Z")
> [@davidm](#): > > So what are some possible solutions to absentee fraud? > > Voter education could be one part. Have large clear text on the ballot stating that anyone who tries to collect their ballot (as opposed to it being mailed) is committing a felony. > > Absentee voting is ripe for vote buying. The only solution I can see for this is severe penalties for those who are caught and maybe rewards for whistle blowers. This fits, and is pretty close to what is the case here in Arkansas. The requirements are in big letters. We do allow the existence of “designated bearers,” but that is something that occurs when you sign up to get the absentee ballot in the first place, and then the ballot is picked up by the bearer, who must show ID. There is also a limit to two ballots per bearer, so they can’t have a bunch of people sign up with the same bearer. The idea of allowing people to just go out and collect ballots seems ridiculous to me. ---
**Author:** ![galen\_ubal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/galen_ubal/32/4440_2.png) [@galen\_ubal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/galen_ubal)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 8:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/158 "2018-12-15T08:01:13Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Here’s my ideas: > > 1. Require voters to seal the ballot envelope and sign their name _across the seal_, before handing the ballot and envelope to someone collecting the ballots. (This could be defeated, obviously, but it would be a lot of work for each ballot, which would limit its use.) > 2. Excepting persons collecting ballots of persons of those they live with or are closely related to, require persons collecting ballots to get some sort of ID from the Secretary of State’s office authorizing them to do so, that they’d have to wear and display while collecting ballots. > 3. Have each ballot come with an identifying number, with a check-in process so that you could go online and verify that your ballot had been turned in. As for #2, it was already illegal in NC for anyone to “collect” other peoples’ absentee ballots (mostly. I think there was an exception for a close relative in unusual circumstances.) The laws were there - the Republican operatives simply ignored them. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 11:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/159 "2018-12-15T11:08:06Z")
> [@galen\_ubal](#): > > As for #2, it was already illegal in NC for anyone to “collect” other peoples’ absentee ballots (mostly. I think there was an exception for a close relative in unusual circumstances.) > The laws were there - the Republican operatives simply ignored them. They were also operating in an environment where most people apparently had no idea what the rules were, which was what made it possible. This was probably a leftover from the days when few people voted absentee - when you either voted on Election Day, or needed to give a reason why you couldn’t, so it didn’t matter much. It’s clear that not only didn’t the people who were approached about their ballots know the deal, but the people hired by Dowless to collect them didn’t, either - they had no idea they were doing something illegal. The antidote to this is a clear and simple law, one that can be explained in a 15-second PSA: “take your ballot to the local election office, or give it to someone with a badge that looks like this. Don’t give it to anyone else.” If the state doesn’t run those PSAs, groups like the League of Women Voters can, or the parties themselves can, if they’re worried that the other party might cheat. ---
**Author:** ![Bijou\_Drains](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bijou_drains/32/2814_2.png) [@Bijou\_Drains](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bijou_Drains)\ **Post date:** [December 15, 2018, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256/160 "2018-12-15T13:47:55Z")
NC used to call early voting “no excuse” absentee voting. Now it’s called one stop absentee voting. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=7) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-nc-elections-shenanigans/816256.md?page=9)