# More Pronunciation: R0 (R Naught) **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [May 26, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514 "2020-05-26T22:04:53Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/1 "2020-05-26T22:04:53Z")
In the instructional video we were listening to last night, the proctor kept calling it “Are Not”. Who else besides me totally doesn’t pronounce “R Nought” the same way as “Are Not”? Hmm, well I guess I do pronounce the “R” and “Are” part the same way. But “not” and “naught”? Uh uh. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/2 "2020-05-26T22:41:49Z")
Naug-hut? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 26, 2020, 10:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/3 "2020-05-26T22:56:12Z")
I assume you’d pronounce “naught” to rhyme with “caught,” “bought,” or “taught” (like “nawt”), and “not” to rhyme with “cot,” “bot,” or “tot.” They’re distinctly different to me too. Is this one of those things where some people hear/say a difference and some don’t, depending on their dialect, accent, or region? ---
**Author:** ![Sunspace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunspace/32/1250_2.png) [@Sunspace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunspace)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 12:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/4 "2020-05-27T00:42:39Z")
"Not, “naught”, “cot”, “caught” all have the same vowel for me (Southern Ontario). The [cot-caught merger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cot%E2%80%93caught_merger). However, it would never occur to me to pronounce “R[sub]0[/sub]” as “R-naught”; “naught” is not a common word here. I would say “R-zero” or “R-sub-zero”. ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/5 "2020-05-27T02:03:30Z")
> [@AHunter3](#): > > In the instructional video we were listening to last night, the proctor kept calling it “Are Not”. > Who else besides me totally doesn’t pronounce “R Nought” the same way as “Are Not”? > > Hmm, well I guess I do pronounce the “R” and “Are” part the same way. > > But “not” and “naught”? Uh uh. Those sound the same to me, along with “knot” and the “naut” part of “nautical” ---
**Author:** ![Slash1972](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slash1972/32/6461_2.png) [@Slash1972](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slash1972)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 2:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/6 "2020-05-27T02:05:37Z")
edited to add: I looked it up, I guess it is ‘ɒ’ ---
**Author:** ![AHunter3](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ahunter3/32/368_2.png) [@AHunter3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AHunter3)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 2:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/7 "2020-05-27T02:45:55Z")
naɔt for me. versus nɑt for “not” ---
**Author:** ![markn\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@markn\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markn_1)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/8 "2020-05-27T15:03:17Z")
They are different for me, but I grew up in Chicago, outside the region of the cot-caught merger. In most of the western US, they are pronounced the same. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/9 "2020-05-27T15:43:09Z")
I’m in a weird state where I have the merger in my usual speech, but I do think of them as slightly different vowels in some situations. And this is one of them, due to the existence of both “naught” and “not.” And also possibly because I mostly hear “naught” in a Britiish accent, as they use it in places where Americans will more often use “zero.” So, while I normally pronounce both words the same, I may sometimes put on an exaggerated “aw-uh” sound to make it clear I mean “naught” and not “not.” I do the same thing with “caught/cot”, but oddly not “taught/tot”–likely because I could clarify with “tater-tot” or “toddler” for the latter. Oh, and I do say “hawty” for haughty, using the variation that actually sounds a bit upper-crust. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [May 27, 2020, 4:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/10 "2020-05-27T16:11:00Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > "Not, “naught”, “cot”, “caught” all have the same vowel for me (Southern Ontario). Your life sounds incredibly boring to me. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![zweisamkeit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zweisamkeit/32/4360_2.png) [@zweisamkeit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zweisamkeit)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/11 "2020-05-28T04:56:37Z")
That vowel merger caused me frustration when I did corporate tech support for a financial services company. Someone from a California branch called in and said that “Don (Last name)” was having blah blah issue. I couldn’t find that name in our ticketing system. We went over it a few times until I spelled it and she said, “no, not Don! DON! D-A-W-N!” Man, Dawn and Don do _not_ sound alike to me _at all_. She probably thought I was nuts, because I said, “oh, _dɔn_, not _dɑn_! Those are so different to me.” ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/12 "2020-05-28T14:17:28Z")
To a deaf person, the little complexities flap their wings noiselessly as they fly over my head. Regarding **naught** : when I first started working in the civil engineering field, “naught” is used instead of zero, in certain instances. It’s an old-fashioned term, and I felt awkward using it. It grows on you. “Naught” is typically used when describing stations on a line. “Six plus naught-naught” will put you right on station Six. Now when you are talking about drafting tools, the ink pen tips (Rapidograph or Leroy) come in different sizes. Size One is a common size, and a lot of linework and lettering is done in Size One. If you need a finer tip the pen size you want would be “0.” But it’s not called “zero.” That is an “aught.” The tips get finer and finer as you go down to “double aught,” “triple aught,” and “four-aught.” The four-aught pens are a BITCH to clean! So, I spend years familiarizing myself with the terminology, and then we end up in Kentucky for Mr (then Sgt) VOW’s last duty station before retirement. And the engineering folks in Kentucky say “zero.” :smack: ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/13 "2020-05-28T14:26:11Z")
I hear a difference in my head, and if I make a conscious effort I pronounce them differently, but I suspect that when I’m not paying attention, they come out the same. I’ll have to remember to pay attention the next time I’m not paying attention, to find out for sure. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/14 "2020-05-28T15:35:16Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I’ll have to remember to pay attention the next time I’m not paying attention, to find out for sure. Let me know how that works for you. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 4:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/15 "2020-05-28T16:25:17Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > To a deaf person, the little complexities flap their wings noiselessly as they fly over my head. I can feel my mouth doing different things when I say “naught” vs. “not” (or “caught” vs “cot,” or “Dawn” vs “Don,” etc.), so I suspect a lip-reader would be able to tell the difference. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [May 28, 2020, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-pronunciation-r0-r-naught/854514/16 "2020-05-28T16:44:47Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Is this one of those things where some people hear/say a difference and some don’t, depending on their dialect, accent, or region? Yep, it sure is. See here– > [@Sunspace](#): > > The [cot-caught merger](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cot%E2%80%93caught_merger). One thing I never quite figured out was the “trap-bath” split, which is prevalent in many accents in southern England especially. How do you know which words are “trap” words and which ones are “bath” words? > **[Trap–bath split](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trap%E2%80%93bath_split)** > > The TRAP–BATH split is a vowel split that occurs mainly in Southern England English (including Received Pronunciation), Australian English, New Zealand English, Indian English, South African English and to a lesser extent in some Welsh English as well as older Northeastern New England English by which the Early Modern English phoneme /æ/ was lengthened in certain environments and ultimately merged with the long /ɑː/ of PALM. In that context, the lengthened vowel in words such as bath, laugh, g In...