# More Proof Birthers are Morons! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [July 4, 2011, 4:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781 "2011-07-04T04:04:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ludovic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ab992/32.png) [@Ludovic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ludovic)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/21 "2011-07-06T18:29:14Z")
Note to OP: you misspelled _Moran_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 6, 2011, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/22 "2011-07-06T18:36:15Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > At the very least they should rule that the children of American Citizens born abroad are “natural born” or better yet we could amend the constitution to allow naturalized citizens to serve as President. Well, you could make one minor constitutional amendment in which a person becomes eligible for the presidency if they’ve been a citizen for 35 years. This will have no effect on those born with citizenship, and Arnold Schwarzenegger could become eligible in 2018, just in time to start running for 2020. ---
**Author:** ![iamthewalrus\_3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/258eb7/32.png) [@iamthewalrus\_3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iamthewalrus_3)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/23 "2011-07-07T00:03:00Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > What is absurd about that? The Supreme Court has never ruled on this point. Because it’s never come up. The Supreme Court can’t just issue rulings for the heck of it. It has to be in response to someone with actual standing before the court brings a case that requires it. Like **Bryan Ekers** , I am in favor of an amendment changing the requirement for President to be being a citizen for 35 years. Not because I want to vote for Arnie, but because I don’t like the idea of 2nd class citizenship, even in a way that affects almost no one. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/24 "2011-07-07T01:02:35Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, you could make one minor constitutional amendment in which a person becomes eligible for the presidency if they’ve been a citizen for 35 years. This will have no effect on those born with citizenship, and Arnold Schwarzenegger could become eligible in 2018, just in time to start running for 2020. Bite. Your. Tongue. ETA: You Canadians can have him as PM, if you’re so willing to have him be in charge of a country. History tells us that movie stars make _terrible_ heads of state. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 1:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/25 "2011-07-07T01:47:12Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > What is absurd about that? The Supreme Court has never ruled on this point. > > [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural\_born\_citizen\_clause\_of\_the\_U.S.\_Constitution](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen_clause_of_the_U.S._Constitution) > > At the very least they should rule that the children of American Citizens born abroad are “natural born” or better yet we could amend the constitution to allow naturalized citizens to serve as President. > > When this whole discussion came up in 2008, I checked and established that Obama’s mother was an America citizen when he was born. At that point I lost interest in where he was born, since I considered him a “natural born citizen” jus sanguinis. The trouble is that the Supreme Court have never said that or anything else. (1) What this moron and all his idiot birther brethren refuse to believe is that, being born in Hawaii, President Obama is a natural born citizen. (2) **iamthewalrus(:3=** noted, there has never been a reason (including with the Obama presidency) for this to be challenged at the Supreme Court level. However, they have opined on common law…(from your link, emphasis added): > [@](#): > > Minor v. Happersett, 88 U.S. 162 (1874): In this case decided after the adoption of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Court stated (pp. 167–68): > The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. _At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also._ These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners. Some authorities go further and include as citizens children born within the jurisdiction without reference to the citizenship of their parents. As to this class there have been doubts, but never as to the first. For the purposes of this case it is not necessary to solve these doubts. _It is sufficient for everything we have now to consider that all children born of citizen parents within the jurisdiction are themselves citizens._ McCain’s eligibility, having been born in the Canal Zone, should have been a bigger question than Obama’s. But the far left, for all their faults (and they are many) are not the screaming lunatics the far right has shown themselves to be. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/26 "2011-07-07T01:56:54Z")
> [@iamthewalrus\_3](#): > > Because it’s never come up. The Supreme Court can’t just issue rulings for the heck of it. It has to be in response to someone with actual standing before the court brings a case that requires it. I assume that the only person who would have had standing would be McCain. Or maybe Biden. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 5:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/27 "2011-07-07T05:10:47Z")
> [@kaylasdad99](#): > > Bite. Your. Tongue. Well, is he bad for California? I was under the vague impression he was a middling governor, somewhat hampered by having taken power during statewide (and indeed, national) economic hardship. Anyway, he’d be eligible in 2018 if a 35-year rule was passed. Madeline Albright would have become eligible in 1992, Henry Kissinger in 1978. I’m not endorsing any of them. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/28 "2011-07-07T05:42:18Z")
Admit it, **Bry** , your lifelong goal has been to move here and, after 35 years, get elected president and turn the US of A into Southern Canada. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/29 "2011-07-07T06:09:18Z")
Dream on. Do you know how much power I’d have to _give up_ to be president? ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 3:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/30 "2011-07-07T15:00:59Z")
_ **Wayne Gretzky 2024** _ ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 7, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/31 "2011-07-07T15:28:26Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > McCain’s eligibility, having been born in the Canal Zone, should have been a bigger question than Obama’s. But the far left, for all their faults (and they are many) are not the screaming lunatics the far right has shown themselves to be. They were screaming before the election. The only reason they stopped is McCain lost. It is really hard with make idiotic ideas go away nowadays. It only takes a few dozen people to keep them alive on the internet and most people will believe anything that fits their world view if it is repeated enough. Obama had to can someone from his own administration for spouting 9/11 conspiracy theories. Compared to the anti-vaccine movement birthers are practically harmless. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/32 "2011-07-08T08:46:45Z")
I remember hearing about McCain’s potential eligibility problems before the election, but I don’t remember the same vitriol and volume. Especially the vitriol. Was there anyone on the left who was the mirror image of Orly Taitz? (honest question). I do agree that many people will believe anything if it falls in line with their world view if it is repeated enough. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/33 "2011-07-08T16:04:24Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > I remember hearing about McCain’s potential eligibility problems before the election, but I don’t remember the same vitriol and volume. Especially the vitriol. Was there anyone on the left who was the mirror image of Orly Taitz? (honest question). I do agree that many people will believe anything if it falls in line with their world view if it is repeated enough. I never heard of this Taitz person. I was able to Google her pretty easily. I can’t assess the relative crazy, but the obvious candidate is Fred Hollander, who went to federal court in an attempt to remove McCain from the ticket. [http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html](http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/11/us/politics/11mccain.html) [http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp](http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp) It occurs to me that the easiest way to force a federal court to rule on what “natural born citizen” means is for a Secretary of State to refuse to put a candidate on the ballot, because they weren’t a “natural born citizen”. This wouldn’t work with Obama, because a competent court would limit themselves to the validity of the birth certificate. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/34 "2011-07-08T16:39:20Z")
Fred Hollander was a registered Republican, so I don’t think he counts. ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 5:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/35 "2011-07-08T17:04:24Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Well, is he bad for California? I was under the vague impression he was a middling governor, somewhat hampered by having taken power during statewide (and indeed, national) economic hardship. > > Anyway, he’d be eligible in 2018 if a 35-year rule was passed. Madeline Albright would have become eligible in 1992, Henry Kissinger in 1978. I’m not endorsing any of them. No, he was NOT a middling governor. First thing he did in office was, by executive order, rescind a car registration fee increase that had been statutorily triggered by a budget gap. Cost of that little move: $4B. The following June at budget passing time, you wanna guess how big the budget gap was? Californians can turn into fucking idiots when they step into a voting booth. Only things I can think of that we’ve gotten right lately, of the top of my head, involved giving our electoral votes to Democratic presidential candidates. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/36 "2011-07-08T20:41:26Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I never heard of this Taitz person. I was able to Google her pretty easily. I can’t assess the relative crazy, but the obvious candidate is Fred Hollander, who went to federal court in an attempt to remove McCain from the ticket. I had heard of the case, but did not remember any name. To me, the difference was that constitutional scholars disagreed on McCain’s eligibility and that would have been a good case to better define the natural born citizen clause. (I would have favored an interpretation that he is qualified even though I did not vote for him…heck, in hindsight, Palin as VP may have been less visible than she is now, which would be a good thing), Taitz spearheaded the “Obama is Kenyan” lunacy. Getting back to the original point, when Lt. Col Lakin said, "“Maybe the ‘natural born citizen’ definition needs to be defined,” I feel confident in reading his mind and saying he wasn’t concerned with McCain’s standing and meant it to be applied in such a way that disqualified President Obama. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [July 8, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/37 "2011-07-08T22:24:10Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > I never heard of this Taitz person. You owe it to yourself to learn more about her. She takes crazy and persistent to a whole new level. She is hilarious. > [@](#): > > I can’t assess the relative crazy, but the obvious candidate is Fred Hollander, who went to federal court in an attempt to remove McCain from the ticket. No comparison. [About Hollander:](http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/article/2008/may/12/born-usa/) > [@](#): > > Fred Hollander, a computer programmer, filed a federal lawsuit March 18, 2008, in New Hampshire claiming McCain is not a natural born citizen, and therefore is not eligible to be president. Hollander has said he actually supports McCain, but filed the suit to settle the issue now, so Democrats can’t try to overturn McCain’s election if he wins. Not especially nuts, just young and unaware that nobody, in Congress or the judiciary, wants to touch the definition of a “natural born citizen.” ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 3:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/38 "2011-07-09T03:13:34Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > Getting back to the original point, when Lt. Col Lakin said, "“Maybe the ‘natural born citizen’ definition needs to be defined,” I feel confident in reading his mind and saying he wasn’t concerned with McCain’s standing and meant it to be applied in such a way that disqualified President Obama. So you agree that the statement was not ipso facto absurd and you were incorrect in presenting it as such? It is interesting that was is very similar dispute concerning Chester A. Arthur being born in Canada. Arthur’s father was Irish. [http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/17/politics/main5246424.shtml](http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/08/17/politics/main5246424.shtml) ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/39 "2011-07-09T18:54:57Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > So you agree that the statement was not ipso facto absurd and you were incorrect in presenting it as such? I concede that the statement alone is not absurd, but in the context I believe it was made, that it just furthers that Lt. Col. Lakin is a moron birther. ---
**Author:** ![elbows](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b3f665/32.png) [@elbows](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elbows)\ **Post date:** [July 9, 2011, 7:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781/40 "2011-07-09T19:00:29Z")
Does anybody really need more proof to know that birthers are morons? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-birthers-are-morons/587781.md?page=3)