# More proof the smoking NAZI's knowing what's best for you. **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 14, 2005, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772 "2005-05-14T00:14:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/41 "2005-05-14T16:34:03Z")
> [@Rufus Xavier](#): > > You wiped their butts for them, too? 😃 That was so wrong! 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/42 "2005-05-14T16:57:01Z")
> [@Excalibre](#): > > Not unless you managed to prove that secondhand smoke was dangerous, and it’s important to distinguish different circumstances. There is no compelling evidence to suggest _any_ danger from casual exposure to cigarette smoke. The concept of secondhand smoke is not one that has science backing it. I believe that statement is erroneous. [From National Institute of Health - National Cancer Institute](http://dccps.nci.nih.gov/TCRB/I_mind_if_you_smoke/other.html) > [@](#): > > {E}nvironmental tobacco smoke (ETS) or secondhand smoke…contains smaller amounts of the same chemicals that harm smokers. ETS is so harmful that the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) has classified it as a “Group A” carcinogen 1. “Group A” carcinogens are the most toxic substances known to cause cancer in humans, also including benzene, radon, and asbestos. That’s a pretty unequivocal statement there - the EPA calls it a Group A carcinogen - not “might be”, or they “think it is” - it IS a Group A carcinogen. So, would you like to tell me what level of “casual exposure” to a Group A carcinogen is safe for me? How about cumulative effects over a lifetime? How many times can I breathe other people’s smoke before it negatively affects _my_ health? Once? 20 times? 200,000 times? I don’t know, so I prefer to not take my chances with known Group A carcinogens. (Just a side note - as we’re becoming more safety conscious in the workplace, tobacco smoke will become less and less welcome, being a Group A carcinogen. Just as Workplace Health and Safety protects workers from being exposed to asbestos and benzene, it will also need to protect workers from second-hand smoke.) ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/43 "2005-05-14T17:30:32Z")
I want to straighten out a few things before we get into the “is so!” “is not!” mode. Many places of employment now have a “system” in place. They do not allow smoking inside their buidlings. They do allow smoking outside. The smoke then is not trapped in the building, does not bother co-workers, and dissipates rapidly. No harm, no foul. After initial resistance (change bad!) we learned that we could all live with it. As far as secondhand smoke being dangerous, that depends on whose report you believe. A group that is anti-smoking can gin up a report saying it is. A group that is pro-smoking can gin up a report saying it isn’t. They **all** have agendas. If it is conclusively proven by someone who doesn’t care either way (unbiased and unskewed), then it still depends on the dosage, the time period, and whether it is a cumulative affect. X-rays can cause cancer too. Yet nobody is calling for it to be outlawed. Yes I know we use it for very very good reasons. But to say stop it completely! Cancer! is the same argument that is used with second hand smoke. Another carcinigen mentioned was radon. It is in our houses, our places of employment, in the rocks. It’s everywhere. Somehow, we are still here(?). There is no escape from it, unless you leave the planet. Finally, asbestos. Nasty nasty stuff. It’s still in some of our buildings. Many places are now questioning if it is wise to remove it at all. Sure it’s bad. But, if in the act of removing it it gets “stirred up”, then you did another Bad Thing. You’ve taken an inert substance and put it right back into the air. Sometimes it’s best to leave it alone, until it’s time to demolish the entire building. What makes sense is to fix what you can, and “declare victory”. More and more places have banned smoking from “common use” areas such as work place, at sporting events, restaurants, etc. That is reasonable. Smokers can still do their thing before or after, or in another place. Nonsmokers and those with medical problems are protected. It’s a win win. Both sides have their “self proclaimed rights” protected. Outright banning or outlawing crosses the line, Big Time. If it instead comes down to “I want it all banned because it’s nasty stinky and yucky and I just don’t like it”, then my remarks about yogurt and asparagus come back in full effect. ---
**Author:** ![Eve](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9e8a1a/32.png) [@Eve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Eve)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/44 "2005-05-14T19:40:25Z")
“The smoking NAZI’s” _what_ knows best for you? –The Punctuation Nazi ---
**Author:** ![Elysian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c77e96/32.png) [@Elysian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elysian)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/45 "2005-05-14T20:06:39Z")
Dont’ you mean the punctuation Nazi’s?? 😛 ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/46 "2005-05-14T22:45:55Z")
At least you couldn’t bring up Gaudere. 😛 As far as the whole “It’s a dangerous carcinogen that _will_ eventually kill you” crowd is concerned, let me mention as I have many times in the past, why ban some of it? If tobacco is such a scourge on the republic, why do you not support a complete ban? Don’t fuck around with half measures if you’re so concerned with the health impact. Ban it all, and ban it all now. Of course, they don’t want this. As an earlier poster mentioned, the taxes are a gold mine. And how much funding do you think these pinheads at the ACS would lose if they lost the biggest cash cow to ever be found by a mortal? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/47 "2005-05-14T23:06:06Z")
> [@bluethree](#): > > If only someone would invent a cigarette alternative that just directs 100% of the stinky, carcinogenic by-product directly inside the smoker so that 0% of it leaks out onto other people. I would wholeheartedly support that. Even if it were 20 times more carcinogenic than today’s cigarettes. I don’t want to impinge on your freedoms at all. Have at it. Heck, have you seen the latest cigarette: _Rimfires_. In a pack of twenty, one random cigarette has a small filter-facing bullet inserted. When the flame reaches the primer, the bullet takes the smoker’s head off. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/48 "2005-05-14T23:47:26Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Heck, have you seen the latest cigarette: _Rimfires_. In a pack of twenty, one random cigarette has a small filter-facing bullet inserted. When the flame reaches the primer, the bullet takes the smoker’s head off. Real bad idea. Bullets can make a mess, especially at close range. Then you face the mighty wrath of the Clean Sole Nazis. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/49 "2005-05-14T23:49:40Z")
> [@Bryan Ekers](#): > > Heck, have you seen the latest cigarette: _Rimfires_. In a pack of twenty, one random cigarette has a small filter-facing bullet inserted. When the flame reaches the primer, the bullet takes the smoker’s head off. I eagerly await the studies suggesting secondhand bullets might be dangerous. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![JohnBckWLD](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d6d6ee/32.png) [@JohnBckWLD](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnBckWLD)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/50 "2005-05-14T23:54:56Z")
If these same [assholes](http://public.fotki.com/JohnBuckLINY/farks/smoke_nazis.html) who suck-ceded in banning smoking in bars are able to outlaw my preferred brand: Crema, it’ll be hard to prevent myself from ‘Falling Down’ on their asses ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 14, 2005, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/51 "2005-05-14T23:55:26Z")
Secondhand bullets? Ban reloading! It’s eeeeevulllll! ---
**Author:** ![Excalibre](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/898d66/32.png) [@Excalibre](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Excalibre)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/52 "2005-05-15T00:38:53Z")
> [@featherlou](#): > > I believe that statement is erroneous. > > [From National Institute of Health - National Cancer Institute](http://dccps.nci.nih.gov/TCRB/I_mind_if_you_smoke/other.html) > That’s a pretty unequivocal statement there - the EPA calls it a Group A carcinogen - not “might be”, or they “think it is” - it IS a Group A carcinogen. Very true. I think that this is problematic for use as evidence because it’s a judgment of a political body (albeit one that is informed scientifically) rather than a piece of actual research. Others have disputed whether this decision was correct or not. Whether it’s a Group A carcinogen or not doesn’t directly prove its danger - just that a political group has opined that it is dangerous. I’m not trying to split hairs here - but their decision to do this is one that has been criticized. > [@Marley23](#): > > No, it’s not. I just like being able to see a concert without paying the price of breathing trouble, occasional nausea, and the burned crap smell for my few hours of enjoyment. I don’t care what people do to their lungs and clothes as long as they don’t do it to _my_ lungs and clothes. And I wish we could fight this battle with a little less partisanship and rancor. Because I’m fully supportive of a lot of efforts to keep smoking out of certain spaces. As a smoker, I almost feel obligated to argue against anti-smoking initiatives because the more places are made smoke-free, the easier it will be to convince folks that, for example, restaurants should have to be smoke-free as well (something I emphatically oppose.) On the other hand, I wouldn’t like to sit in a concert hall and breathe in heavy smoke for hours either. Though I smoke, I don’t enjoy that thick haze of stale smoke that gathers in enclosed spaces with lots of smokers. There’s lots of places where I too would like to see smoking banned. The problem is that I really dislike the idea that we should be able to make the entire world smoke-free, and I bristle at the fact that smoking _outdoors_ is beginning to be regulated in some places. ---
**Author:** ![SteveG1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/bb73d2/32.png) [@SteveG1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SteveG1)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/53 "2005-05-15T00:50:03Z")
Now that is something I do have a problem with - bans on outdoors smoking. Indoors I can understand. Even in certain outdoor settings such as the ballpark I understand. But in the general outdoors, I am against banning. It’s a big world. If I move away from people and light up, I do not want you to go out of your way to stand right next to me and start some sort of fake coughing. It’s rude and it makes you look stupid (It’s really happened). Likewise, don’t make a show of waving your arms as if you were beating down a forest fire (Yes, that has happened to). Most of us smokers do make concessions and do try to show some respect. We expect the same. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/54 "2005-05-15T01:48:19Z")
> [@SteveG1](#): > > Real bad idea. Bullets can make a mess, especially at close range. Then you face the mighty wrath of the Clean Sole Nazis. :eek: That, sir, was beautiful. Allow me a moment to wipe the tear from my eye. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/55 "2005-05-15T04:03:31Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Fucking pink-lungers. Back the fuck off, assholes! That’s the spirit, **duffer**. Them pink-lungers don’t put food on my table and pay my living expenses like you independent, free-spirited smokers. Don’t let them take those cigs away until they have to pry them from your cold, dead fing…nah, I’ll have to think of a better way to put that. **Jackmannii** , pathologist. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/56 "2005-05-15T04:07:50Z")
**Excalibre** , how about [the Canadian Government’s position on second-hand smoke?](http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/tobacco/facts/blueribbon/secondHand.html) How about a link to the [the testing methods to determine the toxins in tobacco and cigarette smoke?](http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/tobacco/legislation/index_testmethods.html) Could there be a study rigorous enough for you that it would cause you to re-think your position? ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/57 "2005-05-15T04:10:04Z")
Um, that would be “testing methods USED”. And scrap one “the”, if you like. I’m going to bed now. ---
**Author:** ![duffer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duffer/32/1026_2.png) [@duffer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/duffer)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/58 "2005-05-15T04:37:39Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > That’s the spirit, **duffer**. Them pink-lungers don’t put food on my table and pay my living expenses like you independent, free-spirited smokers. > > Don’t let them take those cigs away until they have to pry them from your cold, dead fing…nah, I’ll have to think of a better way to put that. > > **Jackmannii** , pathologist. You’re fuckin-A right I have a fight. Those people putting food on your table are called farmers. In the past 14 years of working for them, I know of 2 that don’t smoke. Oh, a pathologist. That makes you a doctor, correct? And we all know how much better you doctors are than the rest of us slovenly folk with no degree in medicine. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/59 "2005-05-15T04:38:25Z")
> [@JohnBckWLD](#): > > If these same [assholes](http://public.fotki.com/JohnBuckLINY/farks/smoke_nazis.html) who suck-ceded in banning smoking in bars are able to outlaw my preferred brand: Crema, it’ll be hard to prevent myself from ‘Falling Down’ on their asses Addicts get so violent! ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [May 15, 2005, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772/60 "2005-05-15T05:30:34Z")
> [@duffer](#): > > Oh, a pathologist. That makes you a doctor, correct? And we all know how much better you doctors are than the rest of us slovenly folk with no degree in medicine. :smack: Calm down, fella. I’m on _your_ side. Without all those **duffers** puffing away, there’d be far fewer cancers of the lung, larynx, esophagus, stomach, kidney, bladder etc. for me to diagnose, and it’d be harder to support my lifestyle, such as it is. These thoughts make it easier to ignore the minor annoyances, like tonight’s smoker in an oncoming car, who hurled his stogie butt out the window at 45 mph, making such a bang when it hit my driver’s side door that I had to stop, get out and check for damage. It may be a filthy habit, but some of us are cleaning up. You keep on keepin’ on. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-proof-the-smoking-nazis-knowing-whats-best-for-you/303772.md?page=4)