# More sci-fi with this theme? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 30, 2009, 3:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727 "2009-10-30T15:25:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/41 "2009-10-30T23:26:31Z")
> [@Mama\_Zappa](#): > > Not so much war-like, but David Brin’s Uplift series has a lot of the “we clawed ourselves to the top!” theme. The premise is that all sentient species had a sponsor - an older sentient species - that basically gengineered / bred a clever animal to true sentience. > > Then they run into us Humans… who apparently got there all on our own. This pisses them off. A lot. This is the first one I thought of. Startide Rising might be one of the best SF books of the last 50 years. Allow me to misquote one character, when confronted by a hostile alien Tom bared his teeth. “I am human. A barbaric member of a wolfling species. Do not force me to eat you.” Awesome. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 30, 2009, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/42 "2009-10-30T23:53:08Z")
To be clear here, you only want stories with humans vs. aliens, and you want it to be war, not just “sapients versus fierce but unintelligent animals”, right? Another good (well, mixed-bag) setting to check out is _The Fleet_, a shared-universe anthology in several volumes written by a variety of different authors. Multi-author anthologies like this are also good for figuring out which authors you like, so you can seek out more by them. Oh, and not to neglect the classics: Make sure to check out _Enemy Mine_ (the novella, not the movie). Humans aren’t exactly the supreme butt-kickers of the Universe, but we’re dishing out about as good as we’re getting. The story is really more about the peace than about the war, though. ---
**Author:** ![Hunter\_Hawk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/50afbb/32.png) [@Hunter\_Hawk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hunter_Hawk)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/43 "2009-10-31T01:32:08Z")
Another possibility would be the “Pandora’s Legions” stories by Christopher Anvil. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 2:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/44 "2009-10-31T02:11:01Z")
Babylon 5 had this as a recurring theme. The humans were one of the more powerful spacefaring races (they are the 4th or 5th strongest, depending on how you decide to balance them against the Narn Regime). The humans (or factions of them) end up in wars involving far more powerful enemies. When all else fails, the humans are described as being remarkably tenacious fighters (at least a few EarthForce ships are shown meeting their ends in flames, ramming enemy ships to take them down with them) and not above using germ warfare, nukes, and assorted booby traps to defeat or destroy their enemies. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 2:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/45 "2009-10-31T02:43:28Z")
Well, it’s actually a web original (though not a fanfic), but Stuart Slade’s [The Salvation War](http://bbs.stardestroyer.net/viewtopic.php?t=118771) fits pretty well. Basically, in early 2008, Yahweh himself sends a message to the people of Earth, saying that he’s finally forsaken humanity, and allowing Satan to send his armies to claim the planet, it’s people, and their souls for himself. The collective response from the survivors (a number of the more devout monotheists obediently killed themselves, went catatonic, or simply lost the will to live and spontaneously died), is basically “screw the both of you, and the horses you rode in on.” Then the shooting starts. And it is good. 🆒 ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 6:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/46 "2009-10-31T06:28:30Z")
“Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts… deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers… put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time… and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes…” Quark, “The Siege of AR-558”, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/47 "2009-10-31T07:03:40Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > “Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts… deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers… put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time… and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes…” > > Quark, “The Siege of AR-558”, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Well, that’s what happens when all your humanoid species are representations of the sides of the human psyche. The humans come out being better than everyone else. The Bajorans probably come the closest to representing the side the OP is talking about ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/48 "2009-10-31T15:33:42Z")
You might try Robert Asprin’s books **Bug Wars** and **Cold Cash War** (if you can find them.) ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/49 "2009-10-31T16:02:47Z")
> [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](#): > > “Let me tell you something about Hew-mons, nephew. They’re a wonderful, friendly people – as long as their bellies are full and their holosuites are working. But take away their creature comforts… deprive them of food, sleep, sonic showers… put their lives in jeopardy over an extended period of time… and those same friendly, intelligent, wonderful people will become as nasty and violent as the most bloodthirsty Klingon. You don’t believe me? Look at those faces, look at their eyes…” > > Quark, “The Siege of AR-558”, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. Quark had a lot of great insights on the humans on DS9. 😃 Quark: I think I figured out why humans don’t like Ferengi … Benjamin Sisko: Not now, Quark. Quark: The way I see it, humans used to be a lot like Ferengi: greedy, acquisitive, interested only in profit. We’re a constant reminder of a part of your past you’d like to forget. Benjamin Sisko: Quark, we don’t have time for this. Quark: You’re overlooking something. Humans used to be a lot worse than Ferengi: slavery, concentration camps, interstellar war. We have nothing in our past that approaches that kind of barbarism. You see? We’re nothing like you… we’re better. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/50 "2009-10-31T16:02:52Z")
> [@silenus](#): > > **The Far Crusade** - Poul Anderson 😃 **The _High_ Crusade**. ---
**Author:** ![Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a8b319/32.png) [@Spatial\_Rift\_47](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spatial_Rift_47)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/51 "2009-10-31T17:26:48Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > Quark had a lot of great insights on the humans on DS9. 😃 > > Quark: I think I figured out why humans don’t like Ferengi … > Benjamin Sisko: Not now, Quark. > Quark: The way I see it, humans used to be a lot like Ferengi: greedy, acquisitive, interested only in profit. We’re a constant reminder of a part of your past you’d like to forget. > Benjamin Sisko: Quark, we don’t have time for this. > Quark: You’re overlooking something. Humans used to be a lot worse than Ferengi: slavery, concentration camps, interstellar war. We have nothing in our past that approaches that kind of barbarism. You see? We’re nothing like you… we’re better. Yes, yes he did. Although with that one you could make a fairly convincing argument that the Ferengi’s treatment of their women amounted to slavery. ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/52 "2009-10-31T20:09:21Z")
> [@Sage\_Rat](#): > > You might try Robert Asprin’s books **Bug Wars** and **Cold Cash War** (if you can find them.) And his Phules Company series ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/53 "2009-10-31T20:10:58Z")
OOOO another one, [Ranks of Bronze](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ranks_of_Bronze) by David Drake. A legion of Romans gets sold into offworld slavery. They want to come home. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/54 "2009-10-31T22:42:01Z")
> [@Ogre](#): > > - One was about alien abductions. Essentially, a very advanced race with aims toward galactic domination had a policy of abducting members of newly-encountered races. During the abduction, the captives would be put through a series of psychological tests in the form of games. The captor race had had enormous difficulty, and a protracted war, with another race of highly aggressive and adaptable aliens. They eventually defeated them, but at enormous cost, and their “pre-screening” policy was aimed at finding out what primitive races shared these characteristics, so they could be destroyed before becoming a problem. Apparently, the human race has these characteristics in spades. We love games. We love competition. We are tenacious, underhanded, and adaptable, and excel at nonlinear solutions to seemingly intractable strategic problems. In this story, these traits are not at all common in the universe, and usually are the product of extensive training and selective breeding programs. The fact that humans seem to all share these traits naturally incites panic among the captors. Worst of all, they find out, we are capable of intricate diplomacy, which makes us unbelievably dangerous. This is a Timothy Zahn story, _Pawn’s Gambit_. It can be found in his collection [Distant Friends and Others](http://www.amazon.com/Distant-Friends-Others-Timothy-Zahn/dp/0671721313/ref=pd_sim_b_1). ---
**Author:** ![bagga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@bagga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bagga)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2009, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/55 "2009-10-31T22:59:34Z")
A non-OP thanks for everyone’s suggestions here. I’ve started reading a few - Brin’s Uplift, Drake’s Ranks of Bronze, and Zahn’s Pawn’s Gambit and they’re uniformly excellent so far. There’s nothing like some human patriotism (is there a word for this?) SF to counteract my innate misanthropy 😃 ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2009, 1:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727/56 "2009-11-01T01:26:07Z")
> [@bagga](#): > > A non-OP thanks for everyone’s suggestions here. I’ve started reading a few - Brin’s Uplift, Drake’s Ranks of Bronze, and Zahn’s Pawn’s Gambit and they’re uniformly excellent so far. There’s nothing like some human patriotism (is there a word for this?) SF to counteract my innate misanthropy 😃 Have you discovered Baen’s free library? [Webscriptions.net](http://Webscriptions.net) lots of free ebooks, and also anything they sell you can read sample chapters online as well. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sci-fi-with-this-theme/515727.md?page=2)