# More scrutiny: Law enforcement tracks your license plate **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 19, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974 "2013-07-19T20:26:08Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2013, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/41 "2013-07-22T16:37:15Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > Huge data sets like we are talking about will always create spurious correlations between innocent people and certain crimes if enough details are recorded in large databases. Innocent people that had nothing to do with it were spread over the front pages of major papers after the Boston Bombings for example. It could be the only reason they were eventually cleared was that it was such a high-profile case but most aren’t. It isn’t just a law enforcement problem, it is a math and statistical problem as well as a judicial problem. It is a completely different technique if you investigate people that you have other reasons to suspect and match up the details afterwards as opposed to doing it the other way and scanning huge databases for suspects. The latter would create way too many false positives for a society to qualify as free. So what is your preferred level of data sets? What databases would you get rid of, and how much potential crime are you willing to tolerate for that belief? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 6:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/42 "2013-07-25T06:49:45Z")
> [@Shagnasty](#): > > You may have noticed that I asked people to give out some private information that is all technically publicly available now but not readily accessible or easy to get by the average person. No one was willing to do it because I am not a law enforcement officer which presumably means that they happily share that same information with anyone wearing a badge. No, none of that information is public, because most of us post anonymously. And I’d only give that information to a cop if I was legally required to do so. And, anyways, he’d be a guy from my hometown that I’d probably personally know. But, even if I didn’t, if something bad were to happen, I’d know how it happened and by whom. I don’t know you. You claim to be trustworthy, but I don’t know that. Plus, maybe I’m being idealistic, but I’d think that, if the cop was not getting my information for official purposes, he’d get in trouble for it when I figure out what happened. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/43 "2013-07-25T12:59:20Z")
I guess if you are using public registered roads with your registered car they have a right to. Driving isn’t really a right, that’s why you have to get your car inspected and registered and follow all of the rules and laws. Otherwise any old crazy would be driving on the road. I don’t like people invading my privacy either, but this doesn’t seem like it’s out of the purview of the law. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/44 "2013-07-25T13:17:29Z")
This re-kindles discussion of the “mosaic theory” of privacy. The concept here is that while it’s true that any given trip, or any given location of your car, is exposed to the public, the sum total of all your locations, or all your trips over many days, is not. In other words, sure, if you’re driving past the corner of Broadway and 42nd Street at noon, you can hardly complain about your privacy if the government sees you or your license plate, because ten thousand other eyes are seeing it as well. But how many of those ten thousand eyes ALSO see you down going downtown towards the tunnel, heading south on I-95 through Jersey, and stopping for gas at the Chesapeake House in Maryland? Any single spotting of you is in public, yes, but those individual pieces are like single shards of glass in a mosaic: they don’t reveal a thing about the picture the mosaic conveys. Only someone with the ability to see all the pieces, in their correct order and placement, knows what the mosaic is. Proponents of this theory – not me, I should add – suggest that this is a distinction to counter the “but it’s in public” argument. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/45 "2013-07-25T13:32:14Z")
It’s not just law enforcement that uses license plate readers, either. A private company called the [National Vehicle Service](http://www.nvsliens.org/aboutUS.htm) has stationary LPRs that match license plates against a list of stolen plates. If one of the readers gets a hit on a plate that has been reported as stolen, NVS sends a message to the local law enforcement agency notifying them that a vehicle that was reported stolen was operating in their jurisdiction at a certain place and time. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/46 "2013-07-25T13:37:16Z")
^And they profit, how? ---
**Author:** ![FoieGrasIsEvil](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foiegrasisevil/32/16638_2.png) [@FoieGrasIsEvil](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FoieGrasIsEvil)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/47 "2013-07-25T13:39:45Z")
Here’s a link to the old thread I started. Some good discussion in there. > **[So Cops Have These Things Now...](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=597387)** > > …I am at one of the two car washes I operate in the Cincinnati area, in West Chester Township, and this police cruiser from the West Chester police department rolls in. This department is one of my best fleet accounts, they bring their cruisers... We still don’t wash those damn cars… 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/48 "2013-07-25T13:44:25Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > ^And they profit, how? I’m guessing finance and insurance companies pay to have access to the service, or to be notified if a car they financed is located. > [@](#): > > Membership List: > > BMW Financial Services, NA, LLC > Ford Motor Credit Corporation > Daimler Chrysler Credit Corporation > AmeriCredit Vehicle Finance > Household Bank Vehicle Finance > Honda Motor Finance Corporation > GENCO Financial > Locator Technologies, LLC > National Salvage Vehicle Reporting Program (NSVRP) > OCRA-AMIS (Mexico and USA) > Vigilant Video > Auto Data Direct, Inc (ADD) > CARCO > MobileTRAC, Inc > Motor Vehicle Software Corporation, Inc (DMV Desk) > DocView, Inc ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/49 "2013-07-25T14:25:33Z")
> [@kayaker](#): > > ^And they profit, how? I don’t know about that company, but others will get a ‘reward’ of some kind from insurance or finance companies. Years back I had my car driven to California because I would be spending a year out there. While waiting for it to arrive I got a call from the leasing company telling me my car had been stolen. It took a number of calls to find out that it had been spotted by one of these companies, through an agent who was probably just a hotel clerk. No theft, no crime, just a little side business for a two bit shamus. ---
**Author:** ![lieu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c2a13f/32.png) [@lieu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lieu)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/50 "2013-07-25T15:04:57Z")
Well crap, I had the perfect crime planned but now I’ve got to rethink everything and adjust for the possibility I’d encounter a reader/tracker along the way. Last night an Amber Alert was over quickly when the father was apprehended during “a traffic stop” in his estranged wife’s SUV. It happened so quickly my immediate suspicion was that her plates were ‘hot’ in the reader/tracker database. Pretty impressive really. I guess the only thing that bothers me about this is that it’s not just like _that_ case where a particular vehicle is the search target. In reality everyone car’s plates are not just read but also entered into a database no matter if you’re performing an illegal act or not. The time, date and location of law abiding, innocent citizen’s movements are now recorded and open to scrutiny. That I find disturbing. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/51 "2013-07-25T15:08:19Z")
> [@lieu](#): > > Last night an Amber Alert was over quickly when the father was apprehended during “a traffic stop” in his estranged wife’s SUV. It happened so quickly my immediate suspicion was that her plates were ‘hot’ in the reader/tracker database. Pretty impressive really. If it was an Amber Alert, every cop in the area is going to have a description of the vehicle, and possibly pulling over any vehicle that resembles it. Impressive yes, but it doesn’t necessarily take LPR to make that happen. ---
**Author:** ![kayaker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kayaker/32/441_2.png) [@kayaker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kayaker)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/52 "2013-07-25T15:09:46Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > I don’t know about that company, but others will get a ‘reward’ of some kind from insurance or finance companies. Years back I had my car driven to California because I would be spending a year out there. While waiting for it to arrive I got a call from the leasing company telling me my car had been stolen. It took a number of calls to find out that it had been spotted by one of these companies, through an agent who was probably just a hotel clerk. No theft, no crime, just a little side business for a two bit shamus. Ahhh. I was picturing something along the line of a phone call. “Hello. I know where your car is and can give you that information for a one time charge of”. . . ---
**Author:** ![aruvqan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aruvqan/32/2891_2.png) [@aruvqan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aruvqan)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2013, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/53 "2013-07-25T15:52:40Z")
> [@Airman\_Doors\_USAF](#): > > Why would you worry about your car being stolen? You have insurance, do you not? And some people have liability only, not replacement. I know on 2 of my 3 I only have liability [my Jetta, the newest and favorite has full even though it is not on any sort of payment plan. Typically cars on loans have to have replacement.] > [@That\_Don\_Guy](#): > > I actually know an instance where being able to scan a license plate is a good thing; I have worn out two bridge toll transponders, but each time I went through a “transponder-only” lane with a broken one, my license plate got scanned and checked against the database to confirm that I did have a valid transponder. How do you wear out a transponder? > [@kayaker](#): > > Ahhh. I was picturing something along the line of a phone call. “Hello. I know where your car is and can give you that information for a one time charge of”. . . Great, some new form of telephone spam ☹ ---
**Author:** ![ASGuy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/838e76/32.png) [@ASGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASGuy)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 1:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/54 "2013-07-26T01:45:48Z")
I’ll accept that license plate scanning and the possible subsequent alert to law enforcement is a good thing. I utterly reject the notion that law enforcement will periodically purge these kinds of records. I don’t like the idea that ten years from now some agency can tell me my vehicle was spotted on highway 36 at 2:05 p.m. on April 12, 2013. ---
**Author:** ![Sicks\_Ate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Sicks\_Ate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sicks_Ate)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2013, 12:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974/55 "2013-07-26T12:40:42Z")
Most of them have no intention of purging them, and in fact it’s a possibility that info from LPRs may be loaded into a statewide database accessible to any law enforcement agency. So just imagine getting pulled over for a little infraction. The cop runs your plate not only to check to see your registration and make sure it’s not a stolen vehicle, but they also run it through the LPR database. Let’s say you happen to drive through an iffy part of town every so often at around 10:30 at night, because you like to go to a yoga class there. Happens to be an LPR there, so the officer sees that you make regular late-night trips to a part of town that’s known to be a goood place to score some weed. Think his questions are going to stop with “License and registration, please?” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-scrutiny-law-enforcement-tracks-your-license-plate/663974.md?page=2)