# More sovereign citizen goodness **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478 "2015-07-29T14:48:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Senegoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/senegoid/32/6606_2.png) [@Senegoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Senegoid)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/21 "2015-07-29T18:28:07Z")
Waitaminnit! Don’t these folks rely heavily on the Uniform Commercial Code? Is it even possible for the UCC to co-exist with the Articles of Confederation (which had no such thing as the Commerce Clause)? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/22 "2015-07-29T18:28:57Z")
Absent from the entire exchange is the voice of the driver. I imagine he was probably thinking… “Bitch, shut the fuck up! You’re not helping with this lunatic bullshit! Just shut your fucking big mouth before we’re both arrested for that bag of pot you’re holding in your purse. Please god, make her shut the fuck up…” ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/23 "2015-07-29T18:34:42Z")
He was wearing a Guy Fawkes shirt that said “OBEY,” so… ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/24 "2015-07-29T18:34:59Z")
> [@Jragon](#): > > Wait… they’re invoking the authority of the **Articles of Confederation**? That’s pretty good. Even if it wasn’t considered outdated, it would only apply in the few states that actually adopted it. It would be like trying to invoke the Magna Carta because we’re a former British colony. Don’t laugh, there _are_ some of them out there who cite the Magna Carta. ---
**Author:** ![RobDog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f07891/32.png) [@RobDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RobDog)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/25 "2015-07-29T18:39:41Z")
Quote screechy lady: > [@](#): > > I am a free inhabitant {burbleburbleburble} we have all the rights of a US citizen without following any of their laws Wow. Pretty sweet deal, where do I sign up? Do I get to eat cake and keep it too? Also: > [@](#): > > I am of the earth Ummmmm… cite? ---
**Author:** ![Boyo\_Jim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/87869e/32.png) [@Boyo\_Jim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boyo_Jim)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/26 "2015-07-29T18:45:57Z")
Why can’t the police shoot one of THESE idiots every week instead of some poor guy selling unstamped cigs. Speaking of which, did that guy claim that as a Free Sovereign Citizen he was exempt from cigarette taxes? I bet that would have totally worked! ---
**Author:** ![leahcim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b4bc9f/32.png) [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/27 "2015-07-29T19:25:21Z")
So who posted this video? It looks like the camera was just left on the ground. The title of the video makes it seem like the poster was another sovereign citizen or fellow traveler. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/28 "2015-07-29T19:41:40Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > You may sincerely believe that you are immune to the laws of the United States. > > But the police officer who arrests you will believe you are subject to those laws. And the judge who presides over your trial will believe you are subject to those laws. And the guard in the prison where they send you will believe you are subject to those laws. But sitting in a cell with Big Jojo is so much easier to bear when you know that you’re _immune_ to him. ---
**Author:** ![August\_West](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/august_west/32/18069_2.png) [@August\_West](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/August_West)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/29 "2015-07-29T20:06:07Z")
Reminds me a lot of the members of the Posse Comitatus, who used to infest the state of Wisconsin pretty heavily. My dad was a deputy sheriff and would entertain us with stories about the Posse whenever he pulled one of them over. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/30 "2015-07-29T20:21:12Z")
For the most part, there’s no point in the police or even the courts arguing with these loons. They have staked out a position that is so far outside of reality and so full of internal contradictions that they aren’t going to listen and you aren’t going to wake them up. Just ignore the crap, consider it the ramblings of a drunk, make the arrest, process the charges, put them in jail. The sooner they see that their ‘magic’ mumbo jumbo had zero effect on their situation and didn’t shield them from any consequences, the sooner they’ll figure out that it doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/31 "2015-07-29T20:33:40Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > For the most part, there’s no point in the police or even the courts arguing with these loons. They have staked out a position that is so far outside of reality and so full of internal contradictions that they aren’t going to listen and you aren’t going to wake them up. Just ignore the crap, consider it the ramblings of a drunk, make the arrest, process the charges, put them in jail. The sooner they see that their ‘magic’ mumbo jumbo had zero effect on their situation and didn’t shield them from any consequences, the sooner they’ll figure out that it doesn’t work. If only loons would figure it out at that point. I’m pretty sure the rants just keep going on about how “they” want to oppress us and make us unaware of our true rights. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/32 "2015-07-29T20:35:42Z")
Someone pretty please point out to these people that the AoC also doesn’t recognize the law of gravity. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/33 "2015-07-29T20:37:35Z")
There are people here in reality who actually do say and do all the right things are are still railroaded by an imperfect justice system. Those real cases give credibility to this notion that these loonies may have of, “I did and said all the right things but I’m still in jail because of corruption and/or incompetence.” Especially if they’re all puffing themselves up on the internet with stories of how awesome their magic words work, which I’m sure they are. I mean, even as this woman was being dragged away in cuffs was she thinking to herself that maybe she was wrong? No, she was screaming that the officer _didn’t even know the rules_. That’s some mighty powerful cognitive dissonance. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/34 "2015-07-29T20:45:44Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > For the most part, there’s no point in the police or even the courts arguing with these loons. They have staked out a position that is so far outside of reality and so full of internal contradictions that they aren’t going to listen and you aren’t going to wake them up. Just ignore the crap, consider it the ramblings of a drunk, make the arrest, process the charges, put them in jail. The sooner they see that their ‘magic’ mumbo jumbo had zero effect on their situation and didn’t shield them from any consequences, the sooner they’ll figure out that it doesn’t work. Unfortunately it doesn’t always stop there. Sovereign citizens are often a physical threat to law enforcement and also known for clogging the courts with lawsuits and putting liens on property against anyone the bump up against. [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/25/sovereign-citizens-are-america-s-top-cop-killers.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/25/sovereign-citizens-are-america-s-top-cop-killers.html) ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/35 "2015-07-29T20:50:59Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > Unfortunately it doesn’t always stop there. Sovereign citizens are often a physical threat to law enforcement and also known for clogging the courts with lawsuits and putting liens on property against anyone the bump up against. > [http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/25/sovereign-citizens-are-america-s-top-cop-killers.html](http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/11/25/sovereign-citizens-are-america-s-top-cop-killers.html) Liens; in what jurisdiction? ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/36 "2015-07-29T20:55:19Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Liens; in what jurisdiction? [Here](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/us/citizens-without-a-country-wage-battle-with-liens.html?_r=0) is a good article in the NY Times about what is known as a paper war. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/37 "2015-07-29T21:07:37Z")
> [@Loach](#): > > [Here](http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/24/us/citizens-without-a-country-wage-battle-with-liens.html?_r=0) is a good article in the NY Times about what is known as a paper war. Well, yes, but my point was that for a group who claim that U.S. courts have no authority over them, they seem awfully willing to resort to the courts when it suits them. ---
**Author:** ![Projammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/projammer/32/559_2.png) [@Projammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Projammer)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/38 "2015-07-29T21:09:23Z")
It’s standard doctrine to use an enemies tools against them. Nothing unusual there. ---
**Author:** ![JRDelirious](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jrdelirious/32/9531_2.png) [@JRDelirious](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JRDelirious)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/39 "2015-07-29T21:18:43Z")
Ah, but you see, courts only have the authority \*they \*recognize by entering in enjoinder (or whatevatheheck magic word of the day). But yes, since the sheep DO submit to the courts, then you can use the courts against them. They really are a trip, man… ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/40 "2015-07-29T21:38:00Z")
> [@Projammer](#): > > It’s standard doctrine to use an enemies tools against them. Nothing unusual there. That may be true to some extent, but most examples I can think of are sort of “within the system” - the civil rights era using existing federal law to force support for equal rights, leveraging one kind of enforcement to achieve another, etc. The whole “I’m not subject to your laws and courts because your laws say so and so let’s go to your court to prove it all” mindset is just so wonderfully schizo-loopy that it’s a treat to read the claims. Or (irritating voices aside) hear them. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478.md?page=3)