# More sovereign citizen goodness **URL:** \ **Category:** Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share\ **Created:** [July 29, 2015, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478 "2015-07-29T14:48:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/61 "2015-07-30T16:55:36Z")
> [@Hershele\_Ostropoler](#): > > I seem to recall reading some of them (claim to) set up their own courts. I imagine these tend to be a lot like the tribunal from _The Dark Knight Rises_. ‘People’s Courts’ always have such a wholesome rep. ---
**Author:** ![Finagle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b19c9b/32.png) [@Finagle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Finagle)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/62 "2015-07-30T16:56:53Z")
You know, they could have trimmed the last five minutes of this video where the camera is lying on the ground. Although I’m amazed at the quality of the audio and the video isn’t bad either. Best part of the video is when the cop starts rationally debating her. “Well, that would just be pure anarchy.” It’s like the video took a short detour through Monty Python Land. The scary part of the video is that there are idiots like this out there driving around without licenses or insurance. Dealing with the aftermath of a car accident caused by one of these jamokes would be like getting trapped in a Kafka novel. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/63 "2015-07-30T17:00:26Z")
Oh look, she’s an [Obama voter](http://mrconservative.com/2015/07/62162-obama-voter-claims-law-doesnt-apply-to-her-because-shes-a-free-inhabitant-so-officer-does-this/). Apparently, sovereign citizens are liberals. _rolleyes_ ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/64 "2015-07-30T17:35:08Z")
> [@leahcim](#): > > So who posted this video? It looks like the camera was just left on the ground. The title of the video makes it seem like the poster was another sovereign citizen or fellow traveler. It looks like she did. The video is called “Illegal Arrest” and posted by someone named FreeInhabitant4. These people actually think they are in the right and if enough people see it, it’ll something something profit ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 5:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/65 "2015-07-30T17:53:10Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#): > > She doesn’t just think he’s wrong; the cuffs go on, and she thinks she’s _not under arrest_. > > “You’re under arrest.” > “No, I’m not. NO, I’m NOT.” > > (Bearing in mind, of course, that she also thinks she was raped.) She probably thinks she’s sane too. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/66 "2015-07-30T18:00:27Z")
> [@YogSosoth](#): > > It looks like she did. The video is called “Illegal Arrest” and posted by someone named FreeInhabitant4. These people actually think they are in the right and if enough people see it, it’ll something something profit Something something freedom, I would wager. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/67 "2015-07-30T18:22:32Z")
I’m going to look into this “Free Inhabitant” deal. It looks like I can get all the benefits of being an American citizen, but I can break all the laws I want as well. That’s awesome! Okay, any suggestion as to which law I should break first? ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/68 "2015-07-30T18:25:17Z")
I have to give that officer credit. He handled that whole thing very professionally, even to the point of trying to have a rational conversation with this lunatic. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/69 "2015-07-30T18:32:10Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’m going to look into this “Free Inhabitant” deal. It looks like I can get all the benefits of being an American citizen, but I can break all the laws I want as well. That’s awesome! Okay, any suggestion as to which law I should break first? Tax laws. If you can convince the IRS you’re in the right, you can convince anybody. ---
**Author:** ![davidm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/davidm/32/225_2.png) [@davidm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/davidm)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/70 "2015-07-30T18:35:13Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > I’m going to look into this “Free Inhabitant” deal. It looks like I can get all the benefits of being an American citizen, but I can break all the laws I want as well. That’s awesome! Okay, any suggestion as to which law I should break first? Violate the election laws and put yourself in the White House. Then you can violate the laws limiting executive powers and the skies the limit! ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/71 "2015-07-30T18:45:53Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Tax laws. If you can convince the IRS you’re in the right, you can convince anybody. Plus, if you can keep the courts from getting involved, worst case scenario you just have to pay your taxes, which you’d have to pay anyway if you weren’t a Fremen on the Land. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/72 "2015-07-30T18:46:44Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Something something freedom, I would wager. Freedom? That is Yang worship-word. You will not speak it! ---
**Author:** ![Moriarty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/moriarty/32/49_2.png) [@Moriarty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moriarty)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/73 "2015-07-30T18:56:11Z")
> [@JRDelirious](#): > > (on a side note: I am now somewhat concerned at the apparent case that any Tom Dick or Harriet can file liens against my property just for the f\*&^ of it and nobody will look to see if they’re real. One would think at the very least one would have to produce a verifiable legal document proving one is empowered to file said lien…) At least in Florida, it’s a third degree felony to file a fraudulent lien, besides also giving you a basis to sue for damages, which include your attorney’s fees and costs. … In another life, I represented lenders seeking to enforce delinquent mortgages (“secured creditor litigation”, if you will). We oftentimes got Freemen/Sovereign Citizen responses. They were always good for a laugh. In response to a lawsuit claiming that they haven’t paid their bill, they would sometimes respond by saying that there never was a loan, since only gold bouillon is valid currency (strange that they didn’t mention this when they signed all of the loan paperwork and took possession of the house). Or they would return the Complaint with a notation that it was “accepted for value” on some theory that all money in our society is just fictional paper, and they were accepting our lawsuit as payment, or something. My favorites were the ones who would cite maritime law, the international criminal court, and random obscure legal citations, only to conclude that they were owed **Billions of Dollars** in damages. These were generally the same people that would put a copyright symbol next to their name and claim that we couldn’t use it without their permission. None of this stuff ever impressed any judge, by the way. These people would show up in court, and even the most sympathetic judge (who would be obliging to people seeking to explain their hardships) would shut them down. When given the opportunity to speak, rather then seek sympathy (which often worked, by the way: some judges would look for reasons to delay a lawsuit because they felt sorry for the defendant), they would begin to ramble at a lightning pace, clearly in defiance of the court system. Irritating a judge is not a good way to get any favors. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/74 "2015-07-30T20:04:54Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Plus, if you can keep the courts from getting involved, worst case scenario you just have to pay your taxes, which you’d have to pay anyway if you weren’t a **Fremen** on the Land. And if the courts do get involved, you can just plant a thumper at the courthouse and let the worms handle the case. Alternate: Their steps aren’t the only thing irregular about them. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/75 "2015-07-30T23:33:34Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Plus, if you can keep the courts from getting involved, worst case scenario you just have to pay your taxes, which you’d have to pay anyway if you weren’t a Fremen on the Land. And if you do end up going to prison, no big deal. Just tell the guard you weren’t properly tried in an admiralty court and he has to let you go. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2015, 11:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/76 "2015-07-30T23:38:43Z")
Has anyone interviewed one of these people after they end up in prison? I’d really love to see what all the cognitive dissonance does, especially when they realize that getting out on parole requires that they actually _acknowledge_ and _agree to_ the parole officers’ having authority over them (versus merely passively acquiescing to that authority while in prison)! ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/77 "2015-07-31T05:23:38Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > For the most part, there’s no point in the police or even the courts arguing with these loons. They have staked out a position that is so far outside of reality and so full of internal contradictions that they aren’t going to listen and you aren’t going to wake them up. Just ignore the crap, consider it the ramblings of a drunk, make the arrest, process the charges, put them in jail. The sooner they see that their ‘magic’ mumbo jumbo had zero effect on their situation and didn’t shield them from any consequences, the sooner they’ll figure out that it doesn’t work. Agreed. I would have paid money to see a video of her court appearance and learn whether the judge laughed so hard that s/he choked. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/78 "2015-07-31T05:27:22Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Has anyone interviewed one of these people after they end up in prison? I’d really love to see what all the cognitive dissonance does, especially when they realize that getting out on parole requires that they actually _acknowledge_ and _agree to_ the parole officers’ having authority over them (versus merely passively acquiescing to that authority while in prison)! I had people that tried passive resistance in prison. It doesn’t work. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/79 "2015-07-31T05:36:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I had people that tried passive resistance in prison. It doesn’t work. No, I bet it doesn’t! That also sounds hilarious, though. And it’s why I specified passive _acquiescence_. But please, tell me more about these people! ---
**Author:** ![MichaelEmouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/michaelemouse/32/101_2.png) [@MichaelEmouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MichaelEmouse)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2015, 5:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478/80 "2015-07-31T05:54:43Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I had people that tried passive resistance in prison. It doesn’t work. > [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > No, I bet it doesn’t! That also sounds hilarious, though. And it’s why I specified passive _acquiescence_. But please, tell me more about these people! Yes, want to know too. Actually, if you haven’t already, a “Ask the former prison guard” thread would be pretty nice. Most of what people, including me, know about prison comes from movies and TV shows which is subpar. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/more-sovereign-citizen-goodness/726478.md?page=5)